Roe v Wade, stare decises on child support cases?

[Malachi]

OK, so the case Roe v Wade ruled that
a woman is allowed to get an abortion without
the consent of the father of her child.
I was recently debating with a teacher at my
school (who is also an attorney) when an interesting
point came up that I don't hear often.
~
OK, so according to Roe v Wade, women are allowed
to have abortion ebcause it is the woman's body. Being
her body, she has the final say.
However, by this logic, wouldn't it be the woman's fault
if she got pregnant?
It's her body and she controls it.
If it is her fault that she got pregnant and she gets to choose
whether the baby lives or dies, why should she be the only
parent that needs to be involved at that phase?
It's up to her then, because it is her issue and her body, but
it becomes the father's issue as well when she has to pay child
support.
If the father doesn't neccessarily get to be involved in
the choice of the baby's life and death, then the mother
should have no right to make him involved when it is cutting
into her money.
If she didn't want to risk having a baby, she shouldn't have sex.
She could refuse to consent, and then she wouldn't get pregnant.
And if she did, that would be rape and it wouldn't be her fault.
(Thhe whole 'it's her body, so it's her fault' thing would
fit except for extreme circumstances, such as rape and
molestation.)  

[Pride of the Peaches]

Many people don't seem to know this, but if a woman is raped, she can go to a clinic and have the rapist's sperm removed within 24 hours, so as to prevent fertilization. So rape really isn't a justification for abortion, although many people make it out to be.

Also, if the removal somehow doesn't work perfectly, the child can always be put up for adoption. It's not like it costs a lot of money to do it. sweatdrop

And in the title... Is "stare" supposed to be "state"? surprised  

[Nebetsu]

Laws are screwy. If you get a girl drunk so she'll consent to having sex with you, it isn't real consent and you can get in trouble. This shows that the law believes that you don't have control over decisions while you're drunk. If you're driving drunk, on the other hand, you're also in trouble. This shows that the law believes that you DO have control over decisions while you're drunk.

So which is it?

Sometimes you just have to smile and nod when it comes to law. People say the Bible conflicts itself while they believe whole-heartedly in the laws that their country was founded.  

[Kyou Nitsune]

prideofthepeaches

Many people don't seem to know this, but if a woman is raped, she can go to a clinic and have the rapist's sperm removed within 24 hours, so as to prevent fertilization. So rape really isn't a justification for abortion, although many people make it out to be.

Also, if the removal somehow doesn't work perfectly, the child can always be put up for adoption. It's not like it costs a lot of money to do it. sweatdrop

And in the title... Is "stare" supposed to be "state"? surprised

But are you concidering the horrors of carrying the child of a rapist inside of you? Thats basically the fruit of that man's loins floating around in your stomach. How would that make you feel? O.o

If you've ever had any experiance with molestation or rape then you'd know that most people are consumed with a hatred for their attacker when they arent overcome with fear. Why would you want to bring a child into the world, put it up for adoption, have it live a (most likely) horrible life in foster care only to possibly grow up to become a rapist just like its father? After all, lots of rapists have mental issues that are passed down.

And the whole 'remove the sperm' thing really isnt very reasonable. Many victims are too ashamed or afraid to come to the police right away. Especially in cases of molestation.  

[Pride of the Peaches]

What do you mean, not reasonable? They don't have to report the incident, or even say whose sperm it is that they have in them. They just need to get to some doctor or clinic within 24 hours and get the routine done, it's that simple. No need to wait until the egg has been fertilized, just do it right then. Like I said, simple.  

[Kyou Nitsune]

prideofthepeaches

What do you mean, not reasonable? They don't have to report the incident, or even say whose sperm it is that they have in them. They just need to get to some doctor or clinic within 24 hours and get the routine done, it's that simple. No need to wait until the egg has been fertilized, just do it right then. Like I said, simple.

No, what I'm saying is removing the semen isn't as easy the woman simply going to an abortion clinic. For example, if its a child thats raped the child obviously wouldnt be able, especially if its a family member who raaped the child, to be able to go to an abortion clinic. In situations where a person is abducted or if they're rapist is in complete control they aren't given that oppurtunity.

And what about when the woman is drugged and not aware that she was raped?

For teenagers who may have made a mistake, for example if the condom broke or in the rare instances where the pill doesn't work. What then?

Obviously you arent concidering all of the possibilities, or you're just looking over them.

As for the 'its your body its your fault' thing I believe thats unreasonable. People will have sex. To believe any different is laughable.  

[Pride of the Peaches]

If a child happens to be born from a drugged rape (which is highly uncommon), it's not like the child will have a terrible life, even if they get adopted, which is not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Sure, there's some abusive adopters, but it really is uncommon. Besides, if that's really a concern, there are reforms that can be made and precautions that can be taken to reduce that possibility. Also, I do believe that it's more important who someone is than who they come from... don't you?

You also brought up incestous rape. This does, in fact, make up less than one percent of abortions. So how can that small number be justification for the great majority that are simply for the purpose of adults' birth control? And if they are unable to visit a clinic, then... that seems to negate that argument, as the girl can't get herself an abortion anyway. neutral

As for your "people have sex" statement, people should be prepared to accept the consequences of having sex in the first place. The central idea behind sex is reproduction, which actually involves giving birth. So why take the risk if they don't want to give birth?  

[Kyou Nitsune]

prideofthepeaches

If a child happens to be born from a drugged rape (which is highly uncommon), it's not like the child will have a terrible life, even if they get adopted, which is not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Sure, there's some abusive adopters, but it really is uncommon. Besides, if that's really a concern, there are reforms that can be made and precautions that can be taken to reduce that possibility. Also, I do believe that it's more important who someone is than who they come from... don't you?

You also brought up incestous rape. This does, in fact, make up less than one percent of abortions. So how can that small number be justification for the great majority that are simply for the purpose of adults' birth control? And if they are unable to visit a clinic, then... that seems to negate that argument, as the girl can't get herself an abortion anyway. neutral

As for your "people have sex" statement, people should be prepared to accept the consequences of having sex in the first place. The central idea behind sex is reproduction, which actually involves giving birth. So why take the risk if they don't want to give birth?

Excuse me, I didnt mean to say the child wouldnt have the oppurtunity to go to an abortion clinic, but that they may not get the oppurtunity to remove the sperm.

I used incestous rape as an example of when the victim doesnt have the oppurtunity to get the sperm removed. Did you not say that rape is not an excuse when the sperm can be removed within 24 hours? The victim may eventually be able to go to a clinic, but to expect everyone to have that oppurtunity isnt really fair.

As for the sex comment, plenty of people don't even concider pregnancy when they think of sex. The majority of adults have sex long before marriag, which I believe is perfectly natural. People will have sex, often times without concidering the consequences of what happens if that condom breaks. I'm not saying the parents shouldnt be held responsible, its just they shouldnt be condemned.  

[Pride of the Peaches]

Honestly, this is the way I see things... If people have sex, they should accept the consequences if something happens. If they weren't prepared to take responsibility for their actions, they shouldn't be having sex in the first place, plain and simple.

And so what if they're not financially able? That's what adoption is for, and it's really not as bad of an option as some people make it out to be. In my opinion, it's better to give a child a chance at living rather than just kill it off.

But like I said, that's just my opinion, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. 3nodding