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We got ourselves a winner!

Congratilations ReiDuck, you are the winner of the abortion showdown! :'D


So, I decided to kick this off, and what better way to do it, than with a classical in all debate forums: abortion. So, here how things will go:

There will be two menbers of the guild that will face eachother, one on one, in this topic. There will also be two other menbers that will referee the two menbers (each of them representing the sides facing). These will point out logical fallacies, insults, innapropriate links that do not have a warning about the content, etc. However, each will only have power over the debater that shares their views. Basicly, the pro-life referee will moderate the pro-life debater, and the pro-choice debater will moderate the pro-choice debater.

Pro-life debater- Toga Toga (devil's advocate)

Pro-choice debater- ReiDuck (Winner!)

Pro-choice referee- Me.

Pro-life referee- Cougar Draven

Devil advocates are not allowed to become referees. If one of the debaters desires to leave the showdown for some reason, please let us know. You can only apply for one position. If this goes against what the crew had in mind for this forum, please let me know :XP:

done ^_^

Consider yourself in ^_^

The winner will be decided when/if one of the debaters cannot counter any of the arguments presented by the oponent. Conceding one or more points does not makes anyone a winner. If let's say, Reiduck makes two points, and you can counter one, yet you have to concede the other one, this will go on.

Yeah, we need a lifer so this can start. Come on, MC, kp? Anyone?

Sure, DA's can be debaters 3nodding Ok, so it's Toga Toga vs ReiDuck. You may begin anytime you want.

I can help a bit. I don't know.

Is this going to have an ending/locking date?

I may have to either shoot myself or scrub my hands raw when all of this is over, but here goes:

When you look at biology, a new individual is created the moment sex cells join. This new life, given the opportunity, will grow to be something as great as you or I. Why take away that potential when you yourself allowed the act to take place, inside you no less?

I refuse to call a child a consequence, and I respect the idea that people should be able to decide who can use their body. However, I'm going to challenge that from another angle. Why allow killing to happen because of this? I do not think that a human being (or potential one) should be killed or left to die because someone did not wish to give up their body. Yes, that does mean I support mandatory donation of blood, marrow, and nonvital organs when the individual in question will die otherwise. And likewise, one should be expected to live through her pregnancy because the fetus would otherwise die.

This should not change if this pregnancy was the result of a rape. Biologically speaking, there is no difference between a fetus concieved through rape and a fetus concieved through consentual sex. Besides, I am not here to punish women for consenting to sex like others have been known to do, but because I dislike the fact that a fetus would be killed out of one's refusal to contribute just as I would dislike the fact that little johnny would die of leukemia because his only known match refused to go through with the transplant.

In the event of an immediate life risk, it would have to depend on how far along the woman is. If this is before viability she should be able to abort to save her own life. It is far better to allow her to abort than to be legally responsible for both her death and the death of the fetus. If this is post-viability, there should be an induced labor or C-section procedure to save both of them. In this instance I oppose the Dilation & Extraction procedure.

In the event of fetal death or severe defect (to the point where the fetus would die soon after birth), She should be allowed to abort. If the fetus has died there is no reason to force her to stay pregnant. In the event of severe defect, there is no reason to force a woman to stay pregnant or a child to be brought into the world where its lifespan was guaranteed to run out before it could really experience the world. (I had the Harlequin fetus in mind as I thought of this)

I hope this covers all points.