Welcome to Gaia! ::

Not to come across as insulting, but as far as communism goes, there's a one-liner that I go by: "Communism would have been great, were it not for the communists." I honestly believe that it was one of the best 'on paper' ideas of all time, but it was also very subject to human failure. In that regard, our ideals are indeed very similar.

Well, simply, payed isn't the right word. Communism abolishes capital (mainly money; the ability to own land as one's own is abolished). Communism is often defined as simply this: The means of the liberation of the Proletariat. And; An association of free men (we are not sexists, its simply that when the phrase was coined it was proper to use men instead of people or peoples), working with the means of production held in common.

People are often taught to reduce communism to Doctor = Unskilled labor. This is truely a problem, because it over looks the factors of just what makes the doctor = to the unskilled worker; and the intricate system behind this developement. Communism is not a system where one wakes up in the morning and finds that the doctor's labour is now equal to a burger flippers labour. It is at a tortoise's pace that this system is brought into being.

You see this is the question of labour. You have been taught that communism means Doctor's labour = a Mcdonalds Crew Member's labour. This is untrue even in communism. Labour, as such is simply the expenditure of human resources (be it mental of physical), but contrete labour is labor performed with an aim and goal. The doctor AND the mconalds employee are practicing a concrete form of labour with a specific aim. Within these two workers, there is such a thing known as labour that is socially neccisary. This is the amount of labour it takes to accomplish your specific aim, in an average time for one's society and also to carry out your aim with atleast average skill and quality. The labour time socially neccisary for a doctor and a mcdonald's employee are much, much different.

Though, Labour itself has a special characture. In that, professional labour, such as the doctors, is basic labour, which is simply the expenditure of human resources (mental or physical) multiplied. This multiplyer is much less for the mcdonald's employee, than the doctor. To explain, if Labour equals X, then a Mcdonald's employees labour would equal much less than a doctor's; for example Mcdonald's worker = 2X, and a doctor's labour = 16x. Now 16X and 2 X do not in any way shape or form equal eachother, other than that they are both labour.

Communism, provides equal amounts of goods and services for all members of the society. Wages, are gone, due to the lack of capital, and therefor; labour is the only measurement. Due to the controlled nature of the communist economy, based upon need and want, professions and jobs can have limited set work hours. As the only way to measure labour is by way of the unit of time (days, hours, etc). Given if an unskillful worker, failed to meet his or her requirements in the time socially neccisary, they would need to work more time to make up for their misuse of their labour. Anyways, A labourer, we'll stick to the Doctor Vs Mcdonald's employee measure, will have varied set work hours, based upon their societies demand. In other words, the work hours to complete a job will be established by society in general, to fulfill its needs. These work hours will take in to account: The amount of time needed to complete the job, the amount of labour inherent in the job, and equality. Yes, doctors will work, through reduced hours, to equal an unskilled labour. Lets say, for example, back to the Equation of 2x and 16x... The unskilled laborer would have to work 8 times as many hours as the doctor to receive the benefits of society (their wants and needs). Naturally this is carried about by doctors working few hours, and unskilled labourers working several more hours. This will not be done simply via daily work hours, but also by years, so doctors would not only work fewer hours, but they would retire sooner.

There are various social programs involed in communism as well (nationalized schooling, has the largest impact on this particular problem) as all schooling, from kindergarten to a doctorare are utterly free to the student. Medication, which is pivital to your question, is also free to the user. You also do not buy food, you simply receive a portion, you could go to a mcdonalds and get a burger, but only so many as you are alloted. Which, due to the over productionary nature of socialism, would be more than most people would care to have.

All this while, they are both receiving equally the fruits of their society. While all members of society equally own the means of production.



Soviet Russia was never communist. Infact; it's communism, what little it claimed, did not come from the writtings and thoughts of Marx, but more so from the writtings of the Anarchist Bakunin, and the revolutionary Nacheyev. Soviet Russia, following Marxist progression, was a terrible mistake. To explain in the simplest terms, communism will only be acheived after many years of the existance of the economic institution of socialism. Lenin and many bolsheviks believed that; since the class conflict between bourgeoisie and proletariat had never developed to a head in Russia, they could simply forgo capitalism and skip straight into socialism. The Tyranny and reactionary tactics, and sheer brutality, of Stalin prooved those men incorrect. As did the utter failure of socialism to ever materialize in Russia, it was always, truely state capitalism, with a totalitarian, or atleast authoritarian government.

I hope this has cleared up some of the misty conceptions... I will put some useful information below.


A chart of Marxist Progression for those who have questions.. (Marxist progression of the mode of production)

Ancient Production (hunter gathering nomads)
Government type (common): Tribal Hierarchy.
Class conflict: between religious leaders and tribal leaders against common folk

Communal Production (early cities, property relations start to develope, invention of agriculture)
Government type (common): Continuancy of Tribal Hierachry to stayed degree, mostly despotic.
Class conflict: between despotic leaders, and religious officials, often one in the same)

Slave Production (Cities subjugate slaves to aid in production especially in agriculture and manufacture property relations become extensive)
Governemnt (common): Various forms ranging from Despotisms, to monarchys, exclusive democracies, and various republican styles of government.
Class Conflict between "citizens" and slaves

Feudalism (a group of nobles divide the land between themselves, subjugate serfs for labour, cities develope out of artisans and peasants, headed by a monarchy)
Government: Noble association of Feudalism, often headed by a Monarchy.
Class conflict between Feudal lords and serfs, and Feudal lords and bourgeois.

Capitalism (An economy based upon trading use values, all means or production held by the bourgeois, extensive property relations)
Government (common): Often some form of "representative" state.
Class conflict: Between Bourgeoisie and The Proletariat (the workers)

Socialism (A control economy, based upon need)
Government: A democratic workers state
Class Conflict: Proletariat and remaining bourgeois which are eventually eliminated.

Communism (All means of production owned in common)
Government: Pure Democracy for all people, Nonexistance of state government prevalient.
Class conflict: N/A (there are no classes in this society)

Bourgeois Definition of : Owners of the means of production, employers
Proletariat Definition of: Workers, who survive off of wages.

(Excuse any spelling errors, and most likely my terrible butchery of the English language.)

Don't worry about being a post monkey :p, I used to be one also for the NCS, though I've backed off lately sadly enough.

Law, as Marx said, will be totaly changed in communism. Law will cease to be something expressed from the sky down to the earth (in modern society the state dispenses justice to the people), and will become the opposite direction in the words: the people will dictate any and all law, and society will bend to the peoples wishes.


I will start with the things you listed.

We are against narcotics, as they distract people from the things that are really important in their life and actually have solid meaning. Narcotics are a replacement for a life that is lacking of fulfillment.

Prostitution is utterly opposed by Marxists. As this is the most base form of property (woman or man selling their own bodies), and we communists are trying to create a society without purcahseable property. It also contributes to the inequality of women to men, as women are predominately more prone to become prostitutes.

Guns: Every single member of society would own some form of deadly weapon in common, this is for a simple reason, keeping order, and stopping anybody from usurping equality.

Given these things are not set in stone, as the communist society, which will encompase the whole world, will make its decisions democratically, if the people want marijuana they will have it, but we can only hope they do not, and that they stick to their founders' principles.

Well, ok, capital is obliterated, by a special method. Upon the insitution of socialism, by the proletariat, this means that; the economy rather than being ran by a market economy will be controled. The State will set prices on commodities, own all means of production (or attempt to aquire them through compensation in the form of bonds), and nationalize all capital (all capital comes from the state, this is how it is in most countries today, but its important to note that this practice continues). Another method of demarketization as I'll call it, is this; employers will be forced to pay the same high wages as state institutions, give the same benefits as state institutions and the same safety standards.

Now, once the control economy is established, in that the proletarian state now owns all means of production (there are no longer any free enterprises everything is owned by the state) capital will start to lose value, as socialism's main goal is over production (in that the value of commodities drops to nothing). Eventually, due to this inflation, capital will just become a receipt for services rendered, people will have their amounts of capital earned by wages, and will go to the store and buy state goods at a state set price, without any worry of their not being more where that came from. Wages will then be equalized as eventually the needs of all can be met through the states production(though all the while a very STRONG progressive income tax has been making most of society nearly equal wage wise since the outset of the proletarian state).

Since the needs of all are being met easily by the state, and most wants are openly available for purchase, capital will just become unneeded, as people are now basically restricted to an equal wage and the set price on goods remains fairly constant. People will now just be conditioned to having a certain amount.. As I said capital is now just a receipt for the standard of living in the socialist society.

Then after a while people will just stop using capital, because intercourse and resource transfers will just be uniform, as capital can't buy you any more than it usually could there will be an established social norm. At this time all productive instruments will pass from the proletarian state, to the proletariat itself. Communism then officially begins.

Its a bit late so I probably rambled but I think you can get the idea :p

Sorry, to further answer, trade wouldn't really be needed, because everybody gets the same thing, so what does it matter? A new coat, is worth just as much as another new coat of the same kind... Perhaps there would be some petty bargaining for small things, say somebody accidently got too much tuna and they wanted some hamburger instead, they could prolly find a comrade willing to exchange, but in the end everybody will have the same value of goods in their own personal possession, so trading is just a question of products.

Rare items or more specifically new items, will be integrated slowly into society to prevent hoarding. Say, a new invention, will name it the Plasma CD. People would be allowed to use this new invention at public facilities, such as libraries, or if it is insanely popular, something similar to internet cafes, untill the industrial production of this item allows all people who want a plasma CD to have one. As for items that are just rare, like diamonds, demand will be met the best that it can, but likely for sacrifice in other areas (sure you get a diamond but you likely wont eat for a while) to an equivelent measure.

This is the control economy idea... Lets say after every week my pay check is 20$... Everybody elses pay check is around 20$... All prices are set and remain the same... that 20$ is going to be the same, and its always going to buy me the same things, unless I save a portion of it, but still i'm giving up something in not spending that 20$. This is caused by everyone being proletariat in the socialist economy (as free enterprise doesn't exist there are no bourgeois, everybody is a worker).

In communism it will be much the same as this, only the people purely by democratic vote will decide production quotas (its called a control economy, for a reason biggrin ) and shares of the products of society will be equal.

to add a bit more of my half asleep writting

I dunno...
It just doesn't seem like much would be changing, with the exception of the amount in people's paychecks and what that can get them...

For example, a group of enterprising youths (Jim, Ted, and Bob, who, we'll say, mine diamonds for a living) notice that diamonds are becoming harder and harder to mine. JT&B aren't stupid, and wouldn't mind a little extra toys and such around their pads. JT&B decide to start saving everything they can so they have the money to buy diamonds. They do so. In 10 years or so, the price of diamonds has risen, due to a now more limited availability. JT&B can now start a succesful underground market for this precious stone, selling them to people for slightly more than they paid for them, and slightly less than what they're worth now. JT&B stand to make a lot of money by abusing the system, and if their strategy gets leaked to a few close friends, soon similar operation will be srpouting like kudzu all over the place for any commodity with limited availability.

I think after a couple of decades under NOVOS, eventually a form of communism would arise, it seems the most sensible course for an advanced society.
However, that being said, I think humanity should be allowed to fall into this kind of societal thinking naturally, not forced into it by any over-zealous idealism (not that that's what you're doing,of course ).
Why? Because the main issue with communism is humanity, who despite being reasonably herd-like when docile, quickly become less pleasant and more revolutionary when the oportunity(?) presents itself.

The way I see it (and of course this is probably wrong) is that communism is the end result of very succesful capitalism, because when everyones rich, no one is.

[/2c + early morning philosophy + possible Dyslexia]

EDIT : yes,yes. I know. communism couldn't possibly be the end result of very succesful communism... or could it ninja