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 Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:59 am
As far as I know, we are all pro-gay rights. However, I thought if I outlined all the issues, perhaps someone would be against one of them.
arrow Pro-same sex marriage. (Marriage is a right and it is unconstitutional to deny that right to same sex couples.)
arrow Pro-gay adoption.
arrow Homosexuality is not a sin (according to Christianity).
arrow Homosexuality is natural.
arrow "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is unnecessary.
Related, but not directly:
arrow Pro-comprehensive sex education (including GLBT issues).
arrow Pro-students' rights (legality).
There you are. I'm open to similar subjects, but these are my particular areas of expertise. I'd also prefer subjects in the first section, since those are the ones I'm actually practiced in.
(I'd prefer no DAs, but if it comes down to it I might accept one.)
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:05 pm
ninja
Um...
...
...
Damn. I can't even DA those...
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:18 pm
linaloki ninja Um... ... ... Damn. I can't even DA those... You know you secretly believe that gays are the spawn of the devil and should be locked up for life in prison, but only in solitary confinement, 'cause otherwise they might like it.
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:15 pm
What kind of students' rights exactly are we talking about?
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:21 pm
What about gay parades and the like? I find them to be annoying and giving people the wrong idea about what being gay really is.
Being gay isn't the glitter and the fab and the ******** of other guys with dildoes in the street.
I personally find it a blow to most gay rights and average gay people to show gay people off in parades like they're these outrageous sexual deviants because not only does it perpetuate stereotypes and give people the wrong idea, but it shows people who would otherwise support gay rights that gay people are actually putting these stereotypes on THEMSELVES.
I'm all for gay marriage, but why the crazy sex parades and the like? Why do gay people NEED to go out and flaunt who they're ********? I don't do the same, nor do most heterosexuals/bisexuals (and even other gay people).
So, I feel that gay parades, like Victoria's Secret shows, are unnecessary.
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:33 pm
ReiDuck What kind of students' rights exactly are we talking about? Well, anything that's been established by the courts. Really, I don't debate whether or not there should the students' rights, but the fact that there are rights -- in other words, the people who wander in to certain topics and state "You do not have any rights until you're 18" or "Schools pretty much own you," etc. Oni-Angel What about gay parades and the like? I find them to be annoying and giving people the wrong idea about what being gay really is. Being gay isn't the glitter and the fab and the ******** of other guys with dildoes in the street. I personally find it a blow to most gay rights and average gay people to show gay people off in parades like they're these outrageous sexual deviants because not only does it perpetuate stereotypes and give people the wrong idea, but it shows people who would otherwise support gay rights that gay people are actually putting these stereotypes on THEMSELVES. I'm all for gay marriage, but why the crazy sex parades and the like? Why do gay people NEED to go out and flaunt who they're ********? I don't do the same, nor do most heterosexuals/bisexuals (and even other gay people). So, I feel that gay parades, like Victoria's Secret shows, are unnecessary. I wonder if you've ever been to a pride prade? I don't mean that in a condescending way -- I'm really curious. Because I've been to pride events -- although, granted, in Texas, not exactly San Fran or anything -- and I've never seen that beyond a few individuals. Most of the people I saw where in regular clothing, or shirtless (guys) at the most. Of course, the flashy guys in sequin thongs do exist, but they're usually in the minority. The problem is they are naturally the ones getting attention.
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Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:32 am
Pandora Box Oni-Angel What about gay parades and the like? I find them to be annoying and giving people the wrong idea about what being gay really is. Being gay isn't the glitter and the fab and the ******** of other guys with dildoes in the street. I personally find it a blow to most gay rights and average gay people to show gay people off in parades like they're these outrageous sexual deviants because not only does it perpetuate stereotypes and give people the wrong idea, but it shows people who would otherwise support gay rights that gay people are actually putting these stereotypes on THEMSELVES. I'm all for gay marriage, but why the crazy sex parades and the like? Why do gay people NEED to go out and flaunt who they're ********? I don't do the same, nor do most heterosexuals/bisexuals (and even other gay people). So, I feel that gay parades, like Victoria's Secret shows, are unnecessary. I wonder if you've ever been to a pride prade? I don't mean that in a condescending way -- I'm really curious. Because I've been to pride events -- although, granted, in Texas, not exactly San Fran or anything -- and I've never seen that beyond a few individuals. Most of the people I saw where in regular clothing, or shirtless (guys) at the most. Of course, the flashy guys in sequin thongs do exist, but they're usually in the minority. The problem is they are naturally the ones getting attention. I've been to a pride parade in San Francisco. It does get quite crazy, and I feel that in many ways, there should either be a "sexuality" parade (what about the bisexual, transgender, and heterosexual people?) The idea of separating sexualities and saying "HEY LOOK AT THIS ONE!" is simultaneously saying "look at us being very sexual and in your face!" and "Let's ignore other sexualities"! In many ways, placing gay people as separate from other sexualities/preferences/etc seeks to compartmentalize sexuality, which isn't healthy for anyone. Being gay doesn't just mean "I like things with penises and I have a p***s" or "I like things with vaginas and I have a v****a". It also implies that there are attractions, subtle differences in preference in mates and sex partners, etc. Gay parades lump all gay people together and certain people (ie: the "sexy" young gay studs and studettes) are seen as pinnacles of the parade. Rather than objectifying and creating homosexual "clones" of heterosexual objectified views of beauty and sexual desire, shouldn't we be going for something more progressive and equalizing...or do I dare say it....personal?
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Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:47 am
Oni-Angel I've been to a pride parade in San Francisco. It does get quite crazy, and I feel that in many ways, there should either be a "sexuality" parade (what about the bisexual, transgender, and heterosexual people?) The idea of separating sexualities and saying "HEY LOOK AT THIS ONE!" is simultaneously saying "look at us being very sexual and in your face!" and "Let's ignore other sexualities"! In many ways, placing gay people as separate from other sexualities/preferences/etc seeks to compartmentalize sexuality, which isn't healthy for anyone. Being gay doesn't just mean "I like things with penises and I have a p***s" or "I like things with vaginas and I have a v****a". It also implies that there are attractions, subtle differences in preference in mates and sex partners, etc. Gay parades lump all gay people together and certain people (ie: the "sexy" young gay studs and studettes) are seen as pinnacles of the parade. Rather than objectifying and creating homosexual "clones" of heterosexual objectified views of beauty and sexual desire, shouldn't we be going for something more progressive and equalizing...or do I dare say it....personal? The thing with pride parades, I've noticed, is that they really do vary depending on where you are, when it takes place, etc. Like I mentioned before, when I attended one, it was definitely very rainbow-y and energetic, but I didn't see any guys in sequined thongs or leather daddy/dominatrix outfits. When one of my guy friends attended another parade, it was right before the 2004 elections, if I remember correctly, so there was a more political edge to it. Same thing with when my mom went. I'm not sure I even think the more "sexual" parades or aspects are bad. As we all know, that exists with the straight crowd with things like Mardi Gras and even just regular ol' big parties. Would I prefer that things were more tasteful? Yeah, because I think the whole "beads" part of Mardi Gras is silly, too. But I don't buy claims like "it'll make the straight people disrespect you if you do that and you'll never get equal rights!" because if someone is going to hate you or deny you rights because of your sexual orientation, a pride parade isn't the reason, it's just an excuse; and if we made pride parades the most uptight, "respectful" things on Earth, those particular people would just move on to find another reaon. As to the name, I agree that "gay pride" is a misnomer. Although it originated at a time when the gay community was the most active; IIRC, even the lesbian community wasn't all that visible, and definitely not the trans community. Now, it's just accepted th at "gay" is a catch-all for everyone. But I wouldn't mind -- and I don't know anyone who would -- if it was changed to something that actually is a catch-all, like "queer."
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:53 pm
Pandora Box ReiDuck What kind of students' rights exactly are we talking about? Well, anything that's been established by the courts. Really, I don't debate whether or not there should the students' rights, but the fact that there are rights -- in other words, the people who wander in to certain topics and state "You do not have any rights until you're 18" or "Schools pretty much own you," etc. What are your specific opinions on this on a comprehensive level? Talking to me, not to "the people who wander in".
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:25 pm
ReiDuck What are your specific opinions on this on a comprehensive level? Talking to me, not to "the people who wander in". You mean on whether or not students' rights should exist? Personally, I do believe they should, just because of my own experiences with schools and that particular issue. Of course, I believe there should be limits; it's perfectly reasonable to not allow the full extent of all freedom of speech/expression/etc. because a school is a learning environment. I wouldn't debate that aspect, though, because from what I've seen it's hard to make a solid case on either side. I'm not going to pretend like I could make a solid case in favor of it right now.
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:18 pm
Pandora Box ReiDuck What are your specific opinions on this on a comprehensive level? Talking to me, not to "the people who wander in". You mean on whether or not students' rights should exist? Personally, I do believe they should, just because of my own experiences with schools and that particular issue. Of course, I believe there should be limits; it's perfectly reasonable to not allow the full extent of all freedom of speech/expression/etc. because a school is a learning environment. I wouldn't debate that aspect, though, because from what I've seen it's hard to make a solid case on either side. I'm not going to pretend like I could make a solid case in favor of it right now. Your OP says that you're willing to argue this one ... which rights do you argue for that are not currently already in place?
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:02 pm
ReiDuck Your OP says that you're willing to argue this one ... which rights do you argue for that are not currently already in place? I specified when you asked, though, that I argue what already exists. Perhaps I should have left that out, since it's not so much actual debating as it is correcting misconceptions. But to answer your question, the laws and courts have established plenty of rights. The problem isn't that there aren't enough; the problem comes when some schools decide to blatantly ignore them.
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:32 pm
Pandora Box linaloki ninja Um... ... ... Damn. I can't even DA those... You know you secretly believe that gays are the spawn of the devil and should be locked up for life in prison, but only in solitary confinement, 'cause otherwise they might like it. Well, yeah, but I can't give a logical reason past Jesus told me so.
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Reply
