Welcome to Gaia! ::

Reply Novos
Non-resistance and non-violence

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

Swordmaster Dragon
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:29 pm


I know that from a practical standpoint, non-violence is nearly impossible to maintain as an organization. We've had discussions on this before. However, as a conversational piece, I offer a few quotes from some of the Buddhist sects I've been studying:

Fujii Nichidatsu (1885-1985), founder of Nipponzan Myohoji:
"In the beginning I thought that religion, as something concerned with the inner human spirit, should have no say about politics or concern itself with social problems, but should stick to giving spiritual guidance to each individual person. However, these days, the problems we need to be concerned with necessarily involve the large social structures of the state, or even further, the world. Until the world itself changes, even individual moral cultivation is possible.

Fujii:
"What led me to assert non-resistance, disarmament and the abolition of war was not my encounter with Mr. Gandhi. When the atom bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I saw hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children die as though burned at the stake and poisoned, victims of a tragedy unprecedented in human history; when I saw Japan forced to accept unconditional surrender, then I understood the madness, folly, and barbarousness of modern war."

Monk Nichiren (1420-1483), founder of Nichirenshu:
"Where should the practitioner of the Lotus Sutra seek the Pure Land?...[the text] tells us [that] the eternal Buddha dwells in this world. Therefore one ought to seek the Pure Land in this world, and cultivate enlightenment not only in oneself, but in the world (Tangyo-Raihai)."

Mahatma Gandhi:
"Non-violence is the law of our species as violence is the law of the brute. The spirit lies dormant in the brute, and he knows no law but that of physical might. The dignity of man requires obedience to a higher law - to the strength of the spirit."

Back to Fujii:
"Civilization is neither having electric lights, nor having airplanes, nor manufacturing atomic bombs. It is not to kill human beings, not to destroy things, not to wage a war; it is to become mutually amiable and respectful. What constitutes its foundation is not the establishment of judicial system but religious faith that seeks gentleness, peace, simplicity, and uprightness."

"To make our bow not to injure the lives [of the Communist troops or those of the West] - this is [the meaning of] our unarming and forgoing of the rearmament of Japan. When we stand unarmed before forces of violence, we must be willing to suffer pain, humiliation, and brutal death through their violent actions. However, the pain, humiliation, and brutal death that may follow our nonresistance and non-killing will not be in vain. Without doubt, they will awaken the Buddhahood inherent in the hearts of the Communist troops or of the troops of the 'free world', who now believe in violence. Both the Buddha and Jesus practices nonresistance, non-killing, and nonviolence as individuals and fulfilled the possibility of building a peaceful society as individuals. The world situation today demands that eighty-four million Japanese as a nation choose nonarmament, so that they will be victorious over hatred with the power of mercy and over violence with justice, through their practice of complete nonresistance and absolute non-killing. This will be none other than the realization and manifestation of our Buddhahood."

"On the other hand, what would we do if Japan were suddenly attacked from outside while we were unarmed and defenseless, having renounced war? In such an event, our leaders would stand in a line before the awesome weapons of the invaders, bow to them with their palms joined in gassho and undertake peaceful negotiations with them. We, men and women of Japan, would follow our leaders and do the same. Should Japan meet the invaders in this way, no soldiers, of whatever nationality, would shoot at our people and bomb our land, however deep their hostility toward us might be. The human spirit has been so developed that no one would be able to do such reckless things. Herein lies the basis of faith in the Buddha's precept of non-killing.
However, it is conceivable that the invaders would mercilessly attack the men and women of Japan as well as our leaders, all of whom would be bowing with their palms joined, seeking peace. Should this happen, we would all lie side by side and meet our death. This holy sacrifice would bring about perpetual world peace. It would be the bodhisattva-practice of bodhisattvas who would deliver all humankind from its danger and suffering."

Finally, Art Spiegelman (artist and author of Maus):
"The holocaust did a lot for the liberation of the Hebrews, but in the past 40 years our realization of humanity's crimes against itself have waned and even more horrible things happen on a daily basis. Maybe what we need is a newer, bigger holocaust."

Sorry for the length.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:45 am


Nonresistance-Wikipedia

The problem with any nation doing this in the face of attack, is that it is unproven on such a large scale, such as. It is one thin to be staring in to the faces of the peaceful 'enemy', but something else entirely to see the country from half a world away over the TV. Far easier it would be to bomb a country if you can't see their faces.

On another note, What would such a philosophy mean for Novos? Obviously that would reject all violence. take over of most any kind would not be permitted. indeed it would be nigh impossible if they were militaristic. And in the battleground of politics, playing that way will get you shot down and replaced.

On the above link, Ammon Hennacy talked of using ones strengths against others weaknesses in relation to nonresistance. That might be possible in politics, but one could easily get them-self shot if they are less than perfect. So careful must one be when treading ground like that. Risky.

Myslec
Crew


Swordmaster Dragon
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:19 am


It is difficult for any full political body to advocate nonviolence and nonresistance in *all* aspects of life, and given the atmosphere around Novos, redundant to say that we should apply it everywhere we can (I think everyone here believes in violence as a final resort solely). All of these quotes also stem from either Buddhist or Hindu philosophy, and we also seem to be in agreement that Novos should be - and is - non-religious in nature. I just thought they were good quotes whee

But you raise a good (if scary) point about modern warfare, something I haven't seen talked about a lot in Novos just yet. Dehumanization of the enemy, much moreso than what was seen even in the beginning of Vietnam, is the face of modern warfare. I believe that if a country is to make real, compassionate, humanistic decisions about war, the generals and higher-ups (i.e. the ones making the decisions) should be on the front lines at some point. Yes, that would be a stupid thing to do in terms of preserving military intelligentsia, but unless the war-hawks are *actually* in danger of being killed, I don't believe they should be making those decisions.

Of course, as Darfur has pointed out to us, the ability to see and slay your enemies up close and personal is not always a deterrent.

Ammon Hennacy's quote is perfectly on-point as far as nonviolence and nonresistance go on a personal basis, as is Gandhi's (of course).
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:19 pm


we mennonites are expected to be nonresistant.

originally, some of the radical reformers were quite violent, such as those of Munster; in reaction to these excesses, the whole movement took on a thoroughly pacifist attitude.

the problem or challenge has to do with (as the first post shows in the Buddhist context) how to live within the given world while being oriented toward a different set of standards and views than those embraced by that world.

this book review sums it up pretty well:

Perry Bush, Two Kingdoms, Two Loyalties: Mennonite Pacifism in Modern America. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1998. Pp. 362. ($39.95) ISBN 0-8018-5827-5



Two Kingdoms, Two Loyalties is the story of changing attitudes and relations between Mennonites and the state during the middle of the 20th century. The story is intentionally limited to the Mennonite Church (MC) and the General Conference Mennonite Church (GC). The dominant theme of the story is the steady movement away from isolation and separation to one of more active involvement. This movement has a number of different stands, among them: nonresistance to political activism; nonconformity to acculturation; noninvolvement to service; and subject to citizen. Underlying these radical changes is a steady constant--the search for ways to strengthen and maintain pacifism defined as refusal to participate in the military. As Perry Bush tells the story, the Mennonites begin with a two kingdom theology that envisages two separate societies, the church and the state, with a minimum of interaction and ends with a view that the church is differentiated from the state primarily in its commitment to peace and service.



Whether this difference is sufficient to be called a two-kingdom view is not clear, nor does the author commit himself on this point. He ends the work with the observation that "it is very hard to draw the line [between the church and] the state" (p. 275).



As the story unfolds it displays a grand variety of themes, many of which are clearly laid out and copiously documented, and all of which are well worth contemplation. Some of the more helpful include:



War as a major catalyst of change and clarifier of issues

1. The way total war makes all citizen either combatants or enemies.
2. The consequence of seeing the primary role of the state as providing welfare rather than keeping order.
3. How the need to be seen as good citizens fostered the service ethic.
4. How the perceived need for equity impacted the design of alternative service
5. The use of fundamentalism to maintain older nonconformist practices, with the consequent weakening of commitment to nonresistance.
6. The search for a third way "combining an evangelical concern for the soul with a liberal concern for peace and justice" (p. 263).

chessiejo


Swordmaster Dragon
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:02 am


War certainly has some strange effects. America, being the so-called "melting pot," is also unique in the church-state mixture. "Support the troops" is certainly indicative of points (1) and (3); the increasingly Christian doctrine and underpinnings of this administration's legal choices displays point (5). It's as though it is American to be Christian, and Christian to fight in the war. Similarly, it is un-American to disagree with traditional conservative values or to question the actions of the government.

This administration made me realize that non-Christians are a minority in America; never before had I felt like I was being opressed for not believing as they did.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:12 pm


Swordmaster Dragon
War certainly has some strange effects. America, being the so-called "melting pot," is also unique in the church-state mixture. "Support the troops" is certainly indicative of points (1) and (3); the increasingly Christian doctrine and underpinnings of this administration's legal choices displays point (5). It's as though it is American to be Christian, and Christian to fight in the war. Similarly, it is un-American to disagree with traditional conservative values or to question the actions of the government.

This administration made me realize that non-Christians are a minority in America; never before had I felt like I was being opressed for not believing as they did.

Wish the majority religion was just "open-mindedness." I feel like close-minded people cause a lot of conflicts, and feed them afterwards.

Aeridea
Crew


chessiejo

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:04 pm


Swordmaster Dragon
War certainly has some strange effects. America, being the so-called "melting pot," is also unique in the church-state mixture. "Support the troops" is certainly indicative of points (1) and (3)but even Republicans now say that "support the troops" should also mean "oppose the war", which of course goes against the grain with the neocons who are losing control through sheer ineptitude and blind ideology in the face of facts ; the increasingly Christian doctrine and underpinnings of this administration's legal choices displays point (5) as a minority Christian sect member i beg to disagree; Bush uses evangelical fundamentalists and millenialists as his power base, and these are NOT a majority of American citizens, and they certainly do not speak for me and my coreligionists . It's as though it is American to be Christian, and Christian to fight in the war. Similarly, it is un-American to disagree with traditional conservative values or to question the actions of the government. it is for this reaon that my people have been beaten, dispossessed and killed here, ever since the Revolution; not for failing to pay taxes or perform other civic duties, which we are quite good at, but for refusing to fight

This administration made me realize that non-Christians are a minority in America; never before had I felt like I was being opressed for not believing as they did.
Reply
Novos

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum