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 Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:58 pm
Do you think The Cromwell Approval has anything to do with Oliver Cromwell?
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:39 pm
Highly debatable. Based on history, I highly doubt it. Oliver Cromwell was a strict puritain; it was his faction that ousted the English royalty for a time, beheaded King Charles I, and banned such things as theater. I dobut he would have approved of any research into the occult.
On the other hand, in Ireland there is the phrase "curse of Cromwell upon you" and the man was head of the Protectorate, remenicent of the word 'protect', which is Hellsing's mission. But those are very slim in opposition to the nature of the man and his times.
In truth, I think I've heard the name Cromwell elsewhere, in association with the occult, but not with Oliver Cromwell. I have a feeling Hirano just chose a name from a tulmutous point in English history. He could have done better relevence wise!
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:29 pm
I agree with Sir_Catherine. When I first heard of the Cromwell Approval, I thought of Oliver. So, I did some research. As Sir_Catherine has said, he doesn't seem to have much that would make him a candidate for a vampiric ability title. However, I did discover that he had a dog...but it was white, and the pictures made it look like a Poodle mix.
I have to agree and say that the reference must come from something else. Maybe it doesn't come from real history at all?
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:15 pm
Here is the only thing that I can think that ties the two. Oliver Cromwell had a military career and during such he had victories. No matter what he did on the battle field he believed that if it was a victory then he had Gods approval. Hence the Cromwell approval is in essence the approval of god on the battle field.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:18 pm
When I heard the name Cromwell I immediatedly thought "Who the hell is that?"
xD
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:13 am
XD LittleDemon smile
Though I really shouldn't speak sense I'm at the other end of XD; I could name who was king before and after Oliver Cromwell's Protectorate and the rough time period of the Protectorate off the top of my head. Comes from being interested in anything to do with British history or literature.
Anyhow...yes, I agree Ace, I don't think it has anything to do with history.
However! Angel_of_Hellfire had an interesting take on the matter. I was telling her about this topic and she said 'What if Oliver led a secret life, so to speak?' I have two thoughts on this. One: I highly doubt he did but Two: the man was a man of contradictions in personality, views and actions. Partly due to the times he lived in, partly due to his own self. There's always a chance. Angel further said "What if he used the occult to maintain power?" to which I had to note that his son did loose power bloody quick after Oliver's death.
In the end, I'd say all this speculation is in fun and Hirano had no clue what he was doing when he named Alucard's seals. The man did just choose London for his setting out of petty revenge. rolleyes xp
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:32 pm
Gorenza > Perhaps...but many rulers have thought the same.
Sir_Catherine > The idea does fit with the feel of Hellsing. After all, Dracula supposedly died, and Van Helsing said he didn't have any children. So it would follow that other notable characters would be more than they appear. It really is a fascinating thought. Dang, a whole series could come from it! But anyway, Angel_of_Hellfire might be on to something.
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:42 pm
Gorenza Here is the only thing that I can think that ties the two. Oliver Cromwell had a military career and during such he had victories. No matter what he did on the battle field he believed that if it was a victory then he had Gods approval. Hence the Cromwell approval is in essence the approval of god on the battle field. lol i like this idea sounds good.....but i don't think it has to do with ollie, even though i thought of him the first time i saw/read Hellsing
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:29 am
Ace of Death Perhaps...but many rulers have thought the same. You have a good point Ace. I suppose that god was often fell back on to justify many slaughters. In fact the Egyptian rulers them selves believed they where living gods. I guess I was just looking for meaning if meaning was there. I found a few ideas the tugged at the Hellsing way of life and wanted to know what you though of it. I think I remember reading some where on this forum that Alucard was very religious at some point. I think can still go on being so he is if he believes that his powers can only be used if god allows him to. If he cannot unlimited his power with out the Cromwell approval then I feel this statement is not completely ridiculous. Anyway thanks for bantering with me about the subject.
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:39 pm
Gorenza Ace of Death Perhaps...but many rulers have thought the same. You have a good point Ace. I suppose that god was often fell back on to justify many slaughters. In fact the Egyptian rulers them selves believed they where living gods. I guess I was just looking for meaning if meaning was there. I found a few ideas the tugged at the Hellsing way of life and wanted to know what you though of it. I think I remember reading some where on this forum that Alucard was very religious at some point. I think can still go on being so he is if he believes that his powers can only be used if god allows him to. If he cannot unlimited his power with out the Cromwell approval then I feel this statement is not completely ridiculous. Anyway thanks for bantering with me about the subject. I'm not saying there's no connection, I was just pointing out that it's a common thread. Good thoughts about Alucard's religious feelings. Maybe the seal does refer to power being used in the name of God.
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:02 pm
Ace of Death Gorenza Ace of Death Perhaps...but many rulers have thought the same. You have a good point Ace. I suppose that god was often fell back on to justify many slaughters. In fact the Egyptian rulers them selves believed they where living gods. I guess I was just looking for meaning if meaning was there. I found a few ideas the tugged at the Hellsing way of life and wanted to know what you though of it. I think I remember reading some where on this forum that Alucard was very religious at some point. I think can still go on being so he is if he believes that his powers can only be used if god allows him to. If he cannot unlimited his power with out the Cromwell approval then I feel this statement is not completely ridiculous. Anyway thanks for bantering with me about the subject. I'm not saying there's no connection, I was just pointing out that it's a common thread. Good thoughts about Alucard's religious feelings. Maybe the seal does refer to power being used in the name of God.
Gorenza: a very interesting idea that because the seals might have connection to a very religious man that the seals themselves might be a sort of 'God is keeping Alucard in check' deal. This works with the fact that the Hellsing family, as well as Oliver Cromwell and Vlad Tepes, is very religious in nature and considers themselves to be on a mission for God as well as Crown and Country.
Also, in the original anime, one gets the distinct impression that after Incognito shoots Alucard with his own bullets that it is God's power that revives him and allowes him to continue to fight.
I know not everyone considers the OA to be true Hellsing, but please understand that Angel and I use it as cannon in our fanfic and thus are just as concerned with it as fans in general might be with the OVA. Thank you.
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:49 pm
Sir_Catherine Considering how Hirano uses references, I'm sure there is a connection somewhere with something. It would be a good question to ask the author directly: "Do you refer to Oliver Cromwell with the name 'Cromwell Seals' that Alucard wears?" He should be able to answer that one.
Gorenza: a very interesting idea that because the seals might have connection to a very religious man that the seals themselves might be a sort of 'God is keeping Alucard in check' deal. This works with the fact that the Hellsing family, as well as Oliver Cromwell and Vlad Tepes, is very religious in nature and considers themselves to be on a mission for God as well as Crown and Country.
Also, in the original anime, one gets the distinct impression that after Incognito shoots Alucard with his own bullets that it is God's power that revives him and allowes him to continue to fight.
I know not everyone considers the OA to be true Hellsing, but please understand that Angel and I use it as cannon in our fanfic and thus are just as concerned with it as fans in general might be with the OVA. Thank you. If we ever get to interview Hirano (other than in our dreams), that'd be a great question. You at least get the sense that he's on God's side. Which I think is a great reversal of roles, an innovative idea. And after all, since when does a devil fight one of its own? "A house divided..."
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:36 pm
Ace of Death Sir_Catherine Considering how Hirano uses references, I'm sure there is a connection somewhere with something. It would be a good question to ask the author directly: "Do you refer to Oliver Cromwell with the name 'Cromwell Seals' that Alucard wears?" He should be able to answer that one.
Gorenza: a very interesting idea that because the seals might have connection to a very religious man that the seals themselves might be a sort of 'God is keeping Alucard in check' deal. This works with the fact that the Hellsing family, as well as Oliver Cromwell and Vlad Tepes, is very religious in nature and considers themselves to be on a mission for God as well as Crown and Country.
Also, in the original anime, one gets the distinct impression that after Incognito shoots Alucard with his own bullets that it is God's power that revives him and allowes him to continue to fight.
I know not everyone considers the OA to be true Hellsing, but please understand that Angel and I use it as cannon in our fanfic and thus are just as concerned with it as fans in general might be with the OVA. Thank you. If we ever get to interview Hirano (other than in our dreams), that'd be a great question. You at least get the sense that he's on God's side. Which I think is a great reversal of roles, an innovative idea. And after all, since when does a devil fight one of its own? "A house divided..."
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:17 pm
I've heard of a cromwell being the name of a clan/family of witches. I can't remember where though. If it is though that means that the Hellsing family had a bit of help when they make alucard their pet.
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:30 pm
Starlit DeityOfTheForest I've heard of a cromwell being the name of a clan/family of witches. I can't remember where though. If it is though that means that the Hellsing family had a bit of help when they make alucard their pet. Glad you mentioned that. I too think I've heard it in connection with that. But I'd thought I was mistaking Cromwell for Crowley (sp?)... Think you can find any info on them?
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