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 Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:29 pm
Okay, something's been bugging me for a while about a lot of the stuff discussed in the forum. It's completely irrational. Example: Otherkin. This is possibly the most irking to me because of its complete unphenomenological approach to things. There is no physical, observable phenomena linked to it, yet we are all supposed to believe that these are the real deal? That I'm sitting on the 'net talking to an elf, dwarf or other such creature? I think I'm talking to a human, who might have some elf, dwarf or similar in his or her bloodline, but to claim outright that you're a pureblood of a bygone race is a little beyond my borders, and that's saying something.
Another thing that gets me is people who lay claim to things such as "I am actually an astral entity using a physical puppet". Well aren't we all...it digs at all that I believe we need to do as magicians to validate our practices to go around doing crap like this!
I think what I'm getting at is that we are all HUMAN BEINGS. We are the greatest thing that has ever been born in this universe, and people are willing to throw away their humanity because they don't understand it, or feel a little angsty, which I believe is little more than a spiritual fart. I have always thought that I was different too, but I always knew that I was human, even if I did have other stuff wandering around in my spiritual/biological blood. But always human.
I thought that's what magic was about! Gaining wisdom and understanding and learning neat new ways to be in the universe and learn the tricks that go with all of it, not finding a new way to play D&D with your life!
/rant
Let me apologize in advance. I really understand some of what's going on, and I'd like to understand more, but sometimes, I feel like I'm ramming my head into a brick wall.
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:14 pm
Hon, you came off way seriously harsh on this. Bad day? I mean, I don't understand Otherkin very well either, but I figure that's because I've not had exposure to it much. And...well...having to explain in a perfectly serious way that fairies talk to me has given me a bit more of a sympathetic view of people trying to explain their own experiential weirdness. I mean, I go back and look at my own posts/writing with a critical eye, and I can see how it would look idiotic/fluffy to a lot of other people. So maybe you've just been running across people who aren't very good at explaining? I admit it's also tougher to tell who's being serious and who's making it up over teh intarwebznet.
And hey, if you want to experience more of the brick wall ramming, try telling someone you talk to fairies. I can't get anyone to take me seriously after that, and I get inundated by well-meaning people with...well, silliness. I can't say it's repugnant, but the assumption I'll be interested is annoying. I need to get back into my artwork so I can give people a better visual representation of what I'm talking about. xp
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Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:30 pm
Dude, just because it's in the guild dosen't mean you actually have to believe it. I don't believe in otherkin, though I do somewhat believe in reincarnation. But my religious/spiritual beliefs are all...different. Anyway, there are plenty of other things I don't believe in, at least entirely. Nobody's forcing you to believe anything at all, and if they are, contact a mod. I don't feel like I'm being pressured into believing anything, and I'm a crew member in the guild. There's an otherkin subforum, but I rarely go into it. Sometimes I will just to check up on things, or if I need/want information on the subject (when I was typing up my FAQ).
And on a side note, though I'll probably get hell for it later, I find some of the subjects here as a way of personal identification. Some people, I expect, fabricate different "ablilities" or "identities" to distinguish themselves from the traditional novice, whether they're aware of it or not. I, as I'm sure many people have, have run across many experiences that could be interpreted as "supernatural" or "paranormal", but on further investigation, was quite mundane. Some people don't even bother to look for the mundane in daily life, or choose to ignore it, as they want that personal/"social" (as we do have somewhat of a society here) satisfaction. I don't know if I'm making any sense, though. Currently, somewhere my throat/trachea is bleeding, and it's painful as hell. Actually, I'm pretty sure I just said the same exact thing 5 different times in 5 different ways. Oh well.
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:03 pm
I doubt the abilities are wholely fabricated, though, Dras. It has to come out of somewhere... some experience. People adopt the explanation that makes the most sense to them at the time. I've used labels for experiences I've had that really don't quite fit, but I've lacked the knowledge (or the terminiology itself is just imprecise by nature) to convey it right any other way. By some standards I've had 'otherkin' experiences, but I choose not to label them as such as I don't put much stock in the phenomena either.
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:01 pm
Starlock I doubt the abilities are wholely fabricated, though, Dras. It has to come out of somewhere... some experience. People adopt the explanation that makes the most sense to them at the time. I've used labels for experiences I've had that really don't quite fit, but I've lacked the knowledge (or the terminiology itself is just imprecise by nature) to convey it right any other way. By some standards I've had 'otherkin' experiences, but I choose not to label them as such as I don't put much stock in the phenomena either. I'm not saying that everything in this guild is entirely bullshit and nonsense. Neither am I pointing at anyone specifically and saying they're completely lying. So it's all dealing with what I explained in my last post. Everything in this guild revolves around interpretation of experiences. If something falls off the top of the refrigerator, one might exclaim, "a ghost did it!" Or, one might take a closer look, and discover that the fridge was quite old, and when it turned on, the vibrations slowly moved the object toward the edge of the fridge, and eventually off the edge. Some people don't want to look for the mundane reasons, because then they don't feel as...guilty about lying. Or, they can begin the process of lying to themselves, and fabricating this entire elaborate...scheme. I might also point out that some psychological conditions can cause grandiose delusions, which include, but are not limited to, belief that one has supernatural or psychic powers, and belief that one can communicate with spirits or supernatural beings. They can (and quite often do) stem from some sort of neglect, either by family members or peers. But that is a touchy subject, especially in a community of people who believe in the paranormal or supernatural. Disclaimer: I am not pointing fingers and calling everyone delusional or psychotic. I am simply stating that some of the members of the guild could possibly be affected by things other than direct experiences. And, also, I just want to make sure no one is going to flip out and think they have some psychological condition. I am by no means a psychologist, I'm just dearly interested in the subject. I'm just making sure I'm covering all my bases here...
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:03 pm
Starlock I doubt the abilities are wholely fabricated, though, Dras. It has to come out of somewhere... some experience. People adopt the explanation that makes the most sense to them at the time. I've used labels for experiences I've had that really don't quite fit, but I've lacked the knowledge (or the terminiology itself is just imprecise by nature) to convey it right any other way. By some standards I've had 'otherkin' experiences, but I choose not to label them as such as I don't put much stock in the phenomena either. Ditto. Man, it's creepy how frequently I agree with you on all points. Still, all the same...to be brutally honest, most people I know of who claim to be Otherkin eventually grow out of it. Maybe it could be considered a step on the path to understanding what they're *actually* going through.
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:33 pm
DrasBrisingr Starlock I doubt the abilities are wholely fabricated, though, Dras. It has to come out of somewhere... some experience. People adopt the explanation that makes the most sense to them at the time. I've used labels for experiences I've had that really don't quite fit, but I've lacked the knowledge (or the terminiology itself is just imprecise by nature) to convey it right any other way. By some standards I've had 'otherkin' experiences, but I choose not to label them as such as I don't put much stock in the phenomena either. I'm not saying that everything in this guild is entirely bullshit and nonsense. Neither am I pointing at anyone specifically and saying they're completely lying. So it's all dealing with what I explained in my last post. Everything in this guild revolves around interpretation of experiences. If something falls off the top of the refrigerator, one might exclaim, "a ghost did it!" Or, one might take a closer look, and discover that the fridge was quite old, and when it turned on, the vibrations slowly moved the object toward the edge of the fridge, and eventually off the edge. Some people don't want to look for the mundane reasons, because then they don't feel as...guilty about lying. Or, they can begin the process of lying to themselves, and fabricating this entire elaborate...scheme. I might also point out that some psychological conditions can cause grandiose delusions, which include, but are not limited to, belief that one has supernatural or psychic powers, and belief that one can communicate with spirits or supernatural beings. They can (and quite often do) stem from some sort of neglect, either by family members or peers. But that is a touchy subject, especially in a community of people who believe in the paranormal or supernatural. Disclaimer: I am not pointing fingers and calling everyone delusional or psychotic. I am simply stating that some of the members of the guild could possibly be affected by things other than direct experiences. And, also, I just want to make sure no one is going to flip out and think they have some psychological condition. I am by no means a psychologist, I'm just dearly interested in the subject. I'm just making sure I'm covering all my bases here... Oh, yes, I am aware of the personality disorder that includes 'grandiose delusions' but I am also aware that the DSM is structured in such a way as to reflect societal norms. Beliefs in things like spirits or the supernatural is not mainstream and has a stigma in our society, so psychologists will tend to label it as a neurotic deviation and in more severe cases, a psychotic disorder. I'm not sure which it says more about: the fact that our society is relatively closed-minded to paranormal phenomena or the fact that the people who believe in that stuff really are nutcases? Yvaine, it is indeed creepy, isn't it? People with similar past experiences somethings think along the same lines. whee
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:32 pm
Starlock Oh, yes, I am aware of the personality disorder that includes 'grandiose delusions' but I am also aware that the DSM is structured in such a way as to reflect societal norms. Beliefs in things like spirits or the supernatural is not mainstream and has a stigma in our society, so psychologists will tend to label it as a neurotic deviation and in more severe cases, a psychotic disorder. I'm not sure which it says more about: the fact that our society is relatively closed-minded to paranormal phenomena or the fact that the people who believe in that stuff really are nutcases? ... I am in no way claiming that the DSM's way of classifying psychological disorders "correct" (or "incorrect", for that matter). But it is entirely possible that some people who suffer from grandiose delusions, believe they experience paranormal phenomena. Just because you don't like what the DSM insinuates about society as a whole, dosen't mean that it's entirely full of s**t. If I didn't believe in at least some of the things listed in the guild, I wouldn't be here. Or at least I'd be a hell of a lot bitchier than I already am. But my point is that the mind is capable of a hell of a lot more things than any of us are aware of. Delusions aren't something the DSM just made up to cover up the "paranormal" s**t people claim. Delusions are quite real. Just as real as telekinesis, magick, or anything talked about in this guild. So why can't people experience delusions related to the paranormal? Why can't that ghost you saw the other day just be a hallucination? Or when you made that psiball, the fuzzy ball of smoke, why can't that all be a delusion? Again, I'm not claiming we're all delusional.
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:45 am
This has taken a nice turn. Last time I was on, nobody had responded.
I realize that we all believe differently, and I don't feel like anyone's forcing me to believe anything. I just don't understand why anyone would want to further isolate themselves from humanity. In Chinese mysticism, it puts us further on the path to becoming demons (a bad kind). I just wonder why it seems wise to give up humanity. That is my biggest problem. And, as stated, I do understand it somewhat...just not enough to really grasp what's going.
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:26 pm
Laren This has taken a nice turn. Last time I was on, nobody had responded. I realize that we all believe differently, and I don't feel like anyone's forcing me to believe anything. I just don't understand why anyone would want to further isolate themselves from humanity. In Chinese mysticism, it puts us further on the path to becoming demons (a bad kind). I just wonder why it seems wise to give up humanity. That is my biggest problem. And, as stated, I do understand it somewhat...just not enough to really grasp what's going. Actually, I would gladly give up humanity. But not in favor of any sort of animal or mythological creature. I just don't like people. I think they're interesting, and like watching them from afar, but I don't like human interaction. I'm not shy, I'm just misanthropic. I'd rather talk with someone over the internet than over the phone or in person. I don't see the person on the other end, I see a mind. I don't like my physical body (no in an "eww! im uglie" sense, I just feel like it holdsme back), and I don't like anyone else's. Hmm...maybe that's why I hate physical contact... Anyway, I can understand the appeal of giving up humanity, but...not for another animal. Say you're an alien. Say you're a god. But an animal is just ridiculous.
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:36 pm
I chalk the 'Otherkin' stuff up to wish fulfillment fantasies, a misinterpretation of ones own feelings, and sometimes to mental issues. I can't help it, when someone says "I'm a dragon using a human body" I tend to start ignoring them real quick.
I can see wanting to be something other than human, but to take it so far as to actually deny ones humanity... that's, to me, messed up.
People want to feel special... by claiming a heritage of something mythical, they are doing that for themselves. They are making themselves feel like they are 'different'. Sometimes, its an ego thing... Dragons and Elves are more powerful than a mere man, so by co-opting that strength, the person is giving themselves an ego boost.
When people 'grow out of it', they are actually coming to accept themselves as they really are. Problem is, there are people out there who never grow out of it. Worse, they start trying to teach others the same stuff they have convinced themselves, and they all start reinforcing one anothers beliefs, and making it harder for them to eventually come to accept themselves.
*shakes head*
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:29 pm
I thought I would post on this topic to represent the otherkin side.
Like all traditions and groups, there will always be people who are teh uber fluffs (I often label them as moonbeams). The Otherkin/Therian groups have their own fair share of moonbeams. And like all occult fluffies, they tend to be quite loud about it.
So, what makes a difference between otherkin fluff and non-fluff? Well, for one thing you don't grow out of being an otherkin. Most otherkin may put their kin-ness on the back burner but they don't go up and drop it. Unless of course, they weren't kin to begin with.
Fluffs also have a tendency to brag about how powerful and teh awesome their types tend to be. They often chose popular kin types as well. I can't tell you how many dragons, angels, and demons I've seen. Very few other kin are represented.
I'm not saying that all of those kintypes are fake, but those kin types are the ones that most fluff-types go for.
In my opinion, those otherkin who are legit are just everyday people. They have jobs, friends, family, and pay their taxes. They know they are otherkin, they accept it, and they go on with life. They don't revel or brag about it.
As for the validity of otherkin, I'd like to point out that, yes. There is no real concrete way of proving that otherkin exist. But there is no way to prove that they don't exist.
All otherkin are humans. We're homo sapiens, no doubt about that. Biologically we are human. Spiritually, we can be something else. Otherkin is a spiritual concept that applies to soul. Until we can really study the soul, there is no way we can be sure about what it can (or cannot) be.
So we have a standstill. We can't prove that otherkin exist and we can't prove that they don't exist.
In the end, what I'm saying is that no one has to believe in otherkin. I don't believe in many things in this guild. The trick is to still respect others. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten bashed for my beliefs only to have the basher claim how badass they are with pyromancy and cryomancy.
Sorry that was so long.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:49 pm
iolitefire n my opinion, those otherkin who are legit are just everyday people. They have jobs, friends, family, and pay their taxes. They know they are otherkin, they accept it, and they go on with life. They don't revel or brag about it. May I interject? ("No. >8[") TOO BAD 8D Replace Otherkin in that line with just about any magick/occult themed person and it still holds true. The real practitioners are the ones that're just everyday-seeming folk, not the loud ones who're reincarnated goddesses with half angel half demon spirit guides and a familiar that speaks Troll.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:01 am
Actually, I don't think humans are the greatest thing that ever hit this earth.
I think they suck.
And should be wiped out like the dinosaurs.
And I include myself in humanity.
Iolite, I agree with your post, though.
It's the fluffy ones that make everyone look bad.
The "LOL, I AM A WOLF ON THE INSIDE AND I AM NOT HUMAN AT ALL I CAN DO MAGIC AND WILL CURSE YOU AND DRAIN YOUR ENERGY FOR LAUGHING AT ME."
No wonder this community gets laughed at, most of the people who are actually heard from it are the ones like that.
:/
And by this community I don't mean MPRILC.
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:31 am
I was going to consider not posting on this subject until I noticed that another otherkin posted to attempt to represent their side. sweatdrop
Personally, yeah, I do have a job and pay the bills and such. I'll admit that I'm 21 and still with my parents... personally I think it's because no one took the time to teach about like... independence and such. That's a different problem though.
As for the trading humanity for something else? I think one of the first things that another otherkin will tell you is that we, them, however you're looking at the group... are still physically human, and lead a human life. To view yourself as not human is a "no no", and even then sometimes to make a comment along the lines of using the word "human" or "human race" or some such and sounding detached... yeah, that can get you in big trouble as well as far as people taking you seriously.
Actually, realizing you're human is just... considered first and foremost as one of those "things" when you're otherkin. I guess the misunderstanding would come in if you try talking and saying "yes, I'm a dragon".
Even those these people feel a connection or feel like certain animals (mythical or "actual"), and might claim to animal tendencies, we still need human nutrition and diets and habits. That's just part of life. 3nodding
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