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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:19 pm
I was reading Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince for the fourth time last week, and as I was reading some of the things Dumbledore says, a very bizarre idea popped into my head. I should warn you that the theory that follows is weird, and I am most likely "as woefully wrong as Humphrey Belcher, who believed the time was ripe for a cheese cauldron". Even I, who came up with it in the first place, don't really believe it. The only evidence for this theory are the speculations of an over-excited imagination and things Dumbledore says that could just point out that he's a wise man and simply knows these things. And such evidence is far from proving anything.
Okay, so I noticed that Dumbledore seemed to know quite a lot about souls being split and all that. Like I said before, this is probably just because Dumbledore is old and wise and probably just understands "the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and whole" (HBP p. 478, UK hardcover edition) because he's seen enough of life to figure that out for himself.
I'm sure many other fans wonder what Dumbledore experienced when he drank the potion in the chapter entitled "The Cave". I mean, really, what could be so terrible that Albus Dumbledore is screaming with fear? It could be the worst possible experience he could ever imagine, such as all the people he loves and cares about being tortured around him or something like that (and thus, it would just be something in his imagination that's never actually happened and never will). Or, my bizarre theory: The potion was something like 'Dementor Juice', and it made him repeat the worst experience he's ever had. Observe what he says when he drinks the potion:
I don't want ... don't make me ... /.../ don't like ... want to stop ... /.../ No ... /.../ I don't want to ... I don't want to ... let me go ... /.../ Make it stop, make it stop /.../ No, no, no ... no ... I can't ... I can't, don't make me, I don't want to ... /.../ It's all my fault, all my fault /.../ please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and I'll never, never again ... /.../ Don't hurt them, don't hurt them, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ... /.../ Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ... /.../ No more, please, no more ... /.../ I want to die! I want to die! Make it stop, make it stop, I want to die! /.../ KILL ME! (HBP p. 534-536, UK hardcover edition)
When he says things like "I don't want to" and "don't make me", I thought it sounded like someone was forcing him, in the imaginary experience in his head, to do something he didn't want to do. Such as...murder? Perhaps, when Dumbledore was a young man, he committed murder? I told you it was bizarre. If Dumbledore is a murderer, that would mean his soul split, right? Thus, he'd have a first-hand experience of what it feels like to have your soul split in two. I doubt he would have made a Horcrux; he says himself that there are things worse than death. And I would imagine that living with a past as a killer would be worse than death. Just think of all those years he would have lived with the knowledge he had ended someone's life!
Every time I consider this theory, it seems less and less plausible, so I won't blame you if you think the same. I seriously doubt I'm right about this, but it could be an interesting premise for fanfiction....
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:30 pm
I quite like that theory, actually. And it's not so far-fetched as you think... We know that Dumbledore almost certainly killed Grindelwald; it's possible that, seeing that the muggle and wizard worlds were at war and knowing the kind of heroic person Dumbledore is, there could have been circumstances where he was forced to kill someone else. Even if it were in total self defence, he seems the kind of person who would have a lot of guilt issues. I know I'm going into total theory here, but it's a very good concept you've got.
I can't help but be reminded of another line of Dumbledore's in HBP that I've always found cryptic, "Killing is not nearly as easy as the innocent believe." Is it just me, or does that statement have a ring of personal experience to it?
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:27 pm
Ah, yes. I knew there was some line I was missing. That makes it seem more like he knows what killing is like, doesn't it?
You know, I've been wondering for a long time what Dumbledore must have been like when he was a kid/young man. I mean, I know he must've been a bigger whiz than Hermione even, because that OWL supervisor said he did things with a wand they'd never seen before. But what was he like? Was he bossy, a know-it-all like Hermione (probably not)? Was he gentle and kind? Did he acknowledge his amazing ability, or did it never occur to him that he was one amazing guy? I suppose he must've realized somewhere along the way that he was above average, because he says several times to Harry throughout the books that he's talented.
Anyway, I'm just rambling here, but I think it would be fascinating to get inside Dumbledore's head, just for once. What was his childhood like, what were his parents like, who were his best mates when he was a student at Hogwarts? We'll probably never know....
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:27 pm
It does. And that it was, apparently, a pretty traumatic event.
I've always wished we could find out more about Dumbledore, too. He seems like he would have been a pretty interesting guy to hang out with. I think from some of the things he's said and what we see in the earlier memories that he might have been kinda cocky and arrogant when he was younger.
Maybe we'll see a little more of his memories in the last book.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:17 am
I hope so. I felt as though we had just begun to get to know him when all of a sudden he was snatched away from us. He'd never been closer to Harry than he was in the sixth book, and we saw a lot more of him throughout the year, too. Usually he just has a big serious conversation at the end of the year. I find it funny how Voldemort always seems to strike around the end of June. So convenient; that way Harry can get in a year of magical studying before he faces him again xp
While we're on the subject of Dumbledore, what do you think about all the rumors that have been flying around lately? Rowling confirmed in an interview a while back that Dumbledore is dead, once and for all, and that he's not coming back. But what do you think about the theory that he'd been planning to die all along? I'd personally like to think that he was planning it all out with Snape ever since the summer, because I really want to believe that Snape's ultimately on Dumbledore's side. But even if Snape wasn't in on the plan, I think that Dumbledore was expecting to die up there. What about you?
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:56 pm
Yeah, I understand plot-wise that having the final journey/battle/confrontation at the end of the year makes the most sense, because they have the whole book to build up to it, but that always makes me snicker... I keep picturing Voldemort marking off the last week of June on a calendar. I'm going to miss Dumbledore, though. It seems weird to imagine a book without him, especially with Harry still so unprepared.
I really don't know... The evidence for it makes a lot of sense, but just because something could work doesn't mean it will. But personally I'm going to be a little disappointed either way it turns out for Snape; if he really is evil then they've wasted an awesome ambiguous character, but if he turns out to have been on Dumbledore's side all along then most of book six was pointless.
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:12 pm
Actually, come to think of it, Snape's probably more just out for himself, you know? He pretends to be both of Voldemort's and Dumbledore's side, but really he's just trying to stay alive and get a share of power for himself. He's cunning enough to do that. ninja
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:45 pm
That does seem the most in-character for Snape. I think he's a lot smarter than anybody gives him credit for- he did get himself in the one perfect position to safe, secure, and more than that, revered no matter who won. Whoever comes out on top, he's the trusted lieutenant.
I like to believe he was personally rooting for Dumbledore, if only because spending the rest of your life working for Voldemort sounds really bleak. But the main flaw I see in the 'Good Snape' theory is that it puts a very cynical, pessimistic man in the unique position of having to trust that a kid he hates, scorns, and from first-hand experience believes to be completely inept is the only one who has a chance of saving him. And no matter how much faith Snape may have in Dumbledore, after the occlumency lessons I just can't see him having any at all in Harry, which being a faithful Order member in full knowledge of the prophecy requires. To someone as intelligent and pragmatic as Snape it may have seemed that, personal feelings and sympathies aside, Voldemort was the safe choice.
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:19 pm
Hmm, you've got a point there. One might think that Snape would trust Dumbledore enough to trust Harry, but Harry sure didn't. Even when everyone around him was telling him to trust Snape, Harry just decided that he knew better than Dumbledore and Snape was a bad hat. And there are many instances that show Harry and Snape have very similar biases, just in opposite directions. Snape can't see any good in Harry, and Harry can't see any good in Snape. So yeah, Snape probably figures Voldemort's the safe choice. I can just see him following Dumbledore's orders, then taking a step back and thinking, "Wait a minute. This is absolutely ridiculous!" Then he goes and knocks Dumbledore off the Tower. I wrote a fanfic once that told the story of the Lightning-Struck Tower from Snape's perspective; after he'd killed Dumbledore and was running away to join Voldemort's side openly, he felt a small measure of regret that Dumbledore, "foolish, trusting Dumbledore" was gone for good.
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:00 am
=] C a r t e l - H o n e s t l yWell, that's certainly.. different. But it would be quite interesting if he was just keeping a deadly secret to himself his whole life. Then again, there is the whole theory about him seeing his students being killed, which might explain, "Don't hurt them, don't hurt them, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead..." --~~-- Please don't mind what I'm trying to say 'Cause I'm, I'm being honest You're part of the reason I'm so set on the rest of my life Being a part of you You tell me what you think about being open, About being honest with yourself.
'Cause things will never be the same.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:21 pm
i think thats really good.
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:53 pm
I actually like that theory. I don't necessarily believe it, but it made me think, and it is interesting.
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