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Akuki

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:40 pm


I was reading through some X-men series lately and I was wondering which mutants you guys thought could qualify as omega level.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:37 am


I know Xavier for certain... I'd like to say Magneto, and Jean Grey as well but I'm not certain. Scarlet Witch should be.

Red Monkey (Dark Avenger)


Akuki

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:43 pm


Red Monkey (Dark Avenger)
I know Xavier for certain... I'd like to say Magneto, and Jean Grey as well but I'm not certain. Scarlet Witch should be.


I was under the impression that Xavier wasn't a omega class. Personally I would put as my list:

Confirmed in story as omega:
Jean Grey
Iceman
Pheonix
Rachel Summers
Mister M
Franklin Richards
Kid Omega
Mr. Immortal
Vulcan

I would suggest that Cable , the Scarlet Witch and Magneto also should count.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:25 pm


Jean Grey IS Phoenix.

Magneto does not count as Omega.

Cable probably, but not nescessarily.

Wanda more than likely.

Gambit almost for sure (he can do everything Iceman can, and THEN some).

Vulcan, as I recall, wasn't naturally Omega, and is now "beyond Omega"...

Edit: Rachel isn't Omega. The scale that called her an Omega is an old, undefined one. She's yet to fit the current definition of an Omega. She MIGHT be, but not confirmed.

The Deadpool
Crew


Akuki

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:03 pm


I'd have to disagree with your dismissal of Magneto. I think based upon recent statemtns made during the House of M series that Magneto in fact has almost unlimited potential and that he is in fact unconciously limiting himself due a subconcious fear of becoming what he hates, shows that he also has the necessary ability for enormous powr growth that is necessary for Omega status.
Also I would like to add Hyperstorm to my list of characters which I think should be omega status. Considering how he is that son of 2 mutants who were classified as omega status ( Franklin Richards and Rachel Summers) and his unlimited energy powers I think he easily qualifies.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:38 am


The Deadpool
Jean Grey IS Phoenix.

Magneto does not count as Omega.

Cable probably, but not nescessarily.

Wanda more than likely.

Gambit almost for sure (he can do everything Iceman can, and THEN some).

Vulcan, as I recall, wasn't naturally Omega, and is now "beyond Omega"...

Edit: Rachel isn't Omega. The scale that called her an Omega is an old, undefined one. She's yet to fit the current definition of an Omega. She MIGHT be, but not confirmed.


What qualifiers are there for Omega Rating... That shoyuld be Important information for this Guild. 3nodding

Dr Henry Pym
Captain

Dangerous Genius


Kuroudo Akabane

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:52 am


I personally don't see why Rogue also shouldn't make the list.

I think they hella screwed her up having permanent template being frickin Sunfire instead of Ms. Marvel.

In fact, these are the abilities I would've preferred as gathered from uncannyxmen.net.

# formerly had permanently stored Ms. Marvel's power template, which used to give her flight, superhuman strength, endurance, reflexes, and durability, a seventh sense that allowed her to react instinctively to danger and home in on specified objects

# formerly had been upgraded to a point that enabled her to recall at will past templates she has absorbed to reactivate any power template she had taken on in the past, which allowed her to "feel out" the minds of her former imprints, sensing whether they were alive or dead and re-experiencing events from their perspective


Just thought I'd get that off of my chest. Rogue as a powerhouse, though not quite on the level of even a Juggernaut made her a much better character to IMO.

But to get to the point. The only limitations seem to be aliens, non living organic beings i.e. cyborgs, robots, etc., and beings possess power negation / draining.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:05 am


Hyperstorm should be counted as Omega. Xavier and Eric are only Alpha level mutants but because of their decades of experience can be on par with an Omega.

Count Omega
Crew


The Deadpool
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:10 pm


Dr Henry Pym
What qualifiers are there for Omega Rating... That shoyuld be Important information for this Guild. 3nodding


Omega rating, nowadays, is infinite and unbound potential.

It generally refers to energy manipulators (including telekinetics) who can work on a planetary or higher scale.

Magneto's NEVER been able to do that on his own. Also using a machine (usually right in the Northern Magnetic Pole) in order to affect anything really far away from him. He's actually one of the few confirmed Alphas (it's what made the term "Omega" this "OMG THAT'S MAD POWERFUL" concept. Powerful as Xavier and Magneto were, they were both still just Alphas).

Notice that Omegas are generally younger. None from Xavier's or Magneto's generation, and half of them are two generations removed (Franklin, Kid Omega, Elixir, Nate Grey...).

Mutants seem to get more powerful as generations go on (again, even in terms of non confirmed Omegas. See Legion and Proteus), I doubt we'll find any Omegas around Xavier's era.

Rogue isn't Omega because she has a limit on how much power she can absorb (despite her first apperance). She couldn't even absorb a powerful Alpha, let alone an Omega.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:59 pm


The Deadpool
Dr Henry Pym
What qualifiers are there for Omega Rating... That shoyuld be Important information for this Guild. 3nodding


Rogue isn't Omega because she has a limit on how much power she can absorb (despite her first apperance). She couldn't even absorb a powerful Alpha, let alone an Omega.


See, I'd take your word for it but look at this list.

HUMANS

Cody Robbins
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X-Men Unlimited #4, Rogue (1st series) #1
Cody fell into a coma from which he never woke up. He died a few years later.

Freddy Classic X-Men #44

two security guards Marvel Fanfare (1st series) #60

Valerie Cooper Uncanny X-Men #179

various people in a crowd Uncanny X-Men #202

two Genoshan Magistrates Uncanny X-Men #236

a security guard Uncanny X-Men #359

Dr. Agee Uncanny X-Men #359

a man abusing children for pornography X-Men Unlimited #31

Dana Rogue (3rd series) #1

Carrie, Rogue’s aunt Rogue (3rd series) #2

Lorenzo Moontreader Rogue (3rd series) #3
He was already in a coma by the time Rogue her powers on him and the conclusion caused him to die.

Darla Rogue (3rd series) #7

a pilot Rogue (3rd series) #7

Yakuza mobster Rogue (3rd series) #9

a ninja Rogue (3rd series) #10



HEROES AND VILLAINS

Destiny
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
unknown
Rogue absorbing Destiny has never been seen on panel, yet it's obvious that during the time Rogue lived with and was trained by Destiny and Mystique, she must have gotten into contact with the precog at least once. Destiny's psychic residue is seen in Rogue's head in X-Treme X-Men Savage Land #1, and she later manifests her powers in X-Treme X-Men #17.

Mystique Marvel Fanfare (1st series ) #60, Marvel Super Heroes (2nd series) #2, Uncanny X-Men #359

Jason
Marvel Fanfare (1st series ) #60
Jason is a mutant of unknown power. Rogue definitely had skin to skin contact with him, but it is unknown what, if anything at all, she absorbed from him; yet afterwards she realized that to touch is not only life, it also means to know pain.

Ms. Marvel / Warbird
Marvel Super Heroes (2nd series) #11, X-Men Unlimited #29
The absorption of Ms. Marvel aka Carol Danvers turned out to be permanent. After years, the Siege Perilous separated the two women, but there was not enough life-force to sustain both bodies. They fought, but Magneto intervened and re-installed Rogue with the powers of flight and invulnerability, while killing the Ms. Marvel entity.

Captain America Avengers Annual #10, Contest of Champions (2nd series) #5

Thor Avengers Annual #10, Mephisto vs ....(the Avengers) #4, Contest of Champions (2nd series) #5

Wolverine Uncanny X-Men #158, 173, Heroes for Hope #1, Mephisto vs ....(the X-Men) #3, Wolverine (2nd series) #125, X-Men (2nd series) #80, 169

Storm Uncanny X-Men #158, 185, Mephisto vs ....(the X-Men) #3

ROM Rom #32
Rogue did not actually absorb ROM, but she got insight to his innermost feelings.

Hybrid Rom #32

Dazzler Dazzler #24, Mephisto vs ....(the X-Men) #3

Professor Xavier Uncanny X-Men #175

She-Hulk Uncanny X-Men Annual #7

Colossus Uncanny X-Men #179, 194, X-Men & Alpha Flight (1st series) #1, Heroes for Hope #1, Uncanny X-Men #208, 247, X-Men (2nd series) #80, 102, 106, 107
Colossus touched and kissed Rogue without effect in X-Men (2nd series) #100. The reason behind this has yet to be revealed.

Dire Wraith Uncanny X-Men #186, 188

Black Tom Marvel Team-Up (1st series) #150

Juggernaut Marvel Team-Up (1st series) #150, Uncanny X-Men #218, Rogue (3rd series) #1

Dagger‘s light power New Mutants #25
Dagger’s powers had been transferred to Wolfsbane of the New Mutants, but she could not cope with them. With Xavier as mental back-up, Rogue absorbed only the light ability from Rhane, which was then placed back into Dagger with the help of Magik.

Cloak’s shadow power New Mutants #25
Cloak’s powers had been transferred to Sunspot of the New Mutants, but he could not cope with them. With Xavier as mental back-up, Rogue absorbed only the darkness ability from Roberto, which was then placed back into Cloak with the help of Magik.

Magus Uncanny X-Men #192

Northstar
X-Men & Alpha Flight (1st series) #1

Loki X-Men & Alpha Flight (1st series) #2
When Rogue touched Loki, he proved to be immune against her power, yet in Uncanny X-Men #236, his psychic residue can be seen in Rogue’s head.

Firestar Uncanny X-Men #193

Shadowcat Uncanny X-Men #194, Heroes for Hope #1

Nightcrawler
Uncanny X-Men #194, Uncanny X-Men Annual #9, Heroes for Hope #1, X-Men (2nd series) #80

Cyclops Uncanny X-Men Annual #9
Rogue actually absorbed Nightcrawler, who was touching Cyclops. That’s the only time that Rogue’s power worked like that. Maybe the fact that they were in the mystical realm of Asgard boosted her power.

Phoenix III / Marvel Girl III (Rachel) Heroes for Hope #1, X-Men Unlimited (2nd series) #6

Magneto Heroes for Hope #1, Uncanny X-Men #304, Magneto Rex #2
Usually Rogue absorbs Magneto like everybody else, however in Uncanny X-Men #304 he claimed to be stronger than ever and although Rogue gained some part of his power, he remained conscious and showed no sign of weakness at all.

Spiral Uncanny X-Men #206
Spiral’s personality was dominant.

Black Rook Uncanny X-Men #208

Sunspot Uncanny X-Men Annual #10

Mojo Uncanny X-Men Annual #10
Rogue managed to absorb something of Mojo, yet he did not weaken. Rogue felt that there was no limit to Mojo’s foulness and passed out.

Mephisto Mephisto vs ....(the X-Men) #3 (twice)
Rogue could only absorb something from Mephisto because he allowed it. He could control the degree of the absorption rate and allowed her to get some of his thoughts, only to manipulate her into certain actions.

Psylocke Mephisto vs ....(the X-Men) #3

Havok Uncanny X-Men #219, X-Men (2nd series) #170, Rogue (3rd series) #11
The scene in Uncanny X-Men #219 showing Rogue absorbing Havok is taken from a dream, however it is a resurfacing of some Psylocke-suppressed memories of Havok visiting the school. That Rogue really absorbed Alex is backed up by him being seen as psychic residue in Rogue’s head in Uncanny X-Men #236.

Thing Fantastic Four vs. The X-Men #2

Human Torch Fantastic Four vs. The X-Men #4

Dr. Druid X-Men vs. The Avengers #3

Vanguard X-Men vs. The Avengers #3

Naze, possessed by the Adversary Uncanny X-Men #227

Bonebreaker Uncanny X-Men #229

Temptress Uncanny X-Men #233

Longshot Uncanny X-Men Annual #12

Garokk Uncanny X-Men Annual #12

Punchout
Uncanny X-Men #235

Archangel Uncanny X-Men #242
As she absorbed the memories of Apocalypse’s evil, Rogue hesitated and was pushed back by Archangel, who did not pass out.

Mr. Sinister
X-Factor #39
Mr. Sinister was the dominant personality.

Dr. Leonard Samson Marvel Super Heroes (2nd series) #6

Gateway Uncanny X-Men #269

Worm Uncanny X-Men #275

a Phalanx-infected human prototype
Uncanny X-Men #305

Bishop Uncanny X-Men #305

Sabretooth X-Men Unlimited #3

Bella Donna Boudreaux
Gambit (1st series) #3

Gambit X-Men (2nd series) #41, Uncanny X-Men #350, X-Men (2nd series) #83, Uncanny X-Men #385, Rogue (3rd series) #1, X-Men (2nd series) #171

Silver Surfer X-Men Unlimited #13
When Rogue tried to absorb the Surfer she was caught in some kind of feedback effect, that knocked her over. Actually she did not absorb any of Norrin Radd’s cosmic power, but she could tell that he had good intentions.

Phalanx Uncanny X-Men #343

Joseph Uncanny X-Men #354

Kali X-Men (2nd series) #81
Kali’s hand touched Rogue’s face and the visual effect made it seem that some absorption took place. Yet it was not followed upon, and Kali seemed not affected.

Brood Queen Contest of Champions (2nd series) #4
The Brood Queen dominated and made Rogue absorb various of Earth‘s heroes.

Hulk Contest of Champions (2nd series) #5

Spider-Man Contest of Champions (2nd series) #5

Phoenix IV (Jean) Contest of Champions (2nd series) #5, X-Men (2nd series) #104

Scarlet Witch Contest of Champions (2nd series) #5

Salvo X-Men (2nd series) #102

Cecilia Reyes X-Men (2nd series) #102
Though not seen on panel, Rogue absorbed Cecilia Reyes either through physical contact or like Colossus at close proximity. In X-Men (2nd series) #108 Rogue utilized the medical knowledge from Cecilia.

Kymri X-Men (2nd series) #104

Z‘Cann X-Men (2nd series) #107

a Kree pilot X-Men Unlimited #29

Beast X-Treme X-Men Savage Land #4

Iceman X-Treme X-Men #13
Though it is unknown when Rogue absorbed Iceman, she manifests his power in this issue, so she must have touched and absorbed him at least once.

Lauren Rogue (3rd series) #1
As later revealed throughout the series, Lauren wasn’t a mutant, but a “dream beast”, working for Campbell Sainte-Ange.

“Anna“ Rogue (3rd series) #2-3, 6
“Anna” is in fact Rogue’s dream twin created by her mother to not be alone. In order to prevent “Anna“ from being killed by her mother, Rogue decided to permanently absorb her, and as such gained the memories of having been raised by her mother.

Polaris X-Men (2nd series) #161, 170, Rogue (3rd series) #12

Silver Samurai Rogue (3rd series) #9

Sunfire Rogue (3rd series ) #10, 8, 11
By the time of the last absorption, Sunfire was already in a critical condition and died when he touched Rogue to make her absorb him. As such, this absorption seems to be as permanent as the Ms. Marvel one years ago.

This seems to be up-to-date.

Mind you I'm talking about had she remained pre-Destiny's Dairies.

If you look through this list, Alpha, Omega, or whatever doesn't seem to be a limit. Some times there have been adverse effects done to Rogue i.e. her losing consiousness or the absorbee's personality being dominant, nonetheless, you can't ignore that there are some Alpha AND Omega class mutants on the list with no negative effects on Rogue whatsoever:

Wanda Maximoff the Scarlet Witch, both Magneto AND Charles Xavier, Iceman AND Phoenix.

Not to mention some people who aren't even mutants and one would expect she WOULDN'T be able to absorb most notably Loki AND Thor both DIETIES.

Again her limits don't seem to be on HOW MUCH she can absorb but WHO she can absorb and WHAT she can absorb. Lady Deathstrike for instance is a cyborg which I've mentioned she can't absorb, nor can she absorb beings composed of energies like Wonder Man, and then there is Selene who can drain Rogue's life force MUCH FASTER than Rogue can absorb her powers.

I can list these individuals too if you so please.

Kuroudo Akabane


The Deadpool
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:23 pm


Neither Iceman, nor Scarlet Witch, nor Phoenix were anywhere near reaching their potential though. Remember that she absorbs their power at whatever level they are when she touches them, not their max. When she touches Cyclops, she can't control the blasts any more than he can (even though he CAN'T only because of brain damage).

And like you yourself said, Iceman she never abosrbed, just manifested the power. Scarlet Witch and Phoenix (and the second Thor) were ALL in Contest of Champions (which had power levels kind of scewed, and had her absorbing SPIDER-MAN's powers, which is clearly impossible).

First Thor was her first apperance, long before she was defined. Since then, she's tried to absorb people on his power class (Surfer, Loki, sometimes even Juggernaut) and failed due to being too much power.

As a rule of thumb, Rogue has shown herself incapable of absorbing people with strong minds without losing control of the body, and people with high levels of power.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:38 pm


The Deadpool
Neither Iceman, nor Scarlet Witch, nor Phoenix were anywhere near reaching their potential though. Remember that she absorbs their power at whatever level they are when she touches them, not their max. When she touches Cyclops, she can't control the blasts any more than he can (even though he CAN'T only because of brain damage).

And like you yourself said, Iceman she never abosrbed, just manifested the power. Scarlet Witch and Phoenix (and the second Thor) were ALL in Contest of Champions (which had power levels kind of scewed, and had her absorbing SPIDER-MAN's powers, which is clearly impossible).

First Thor was her first apperance, long before she was defined. Since then, she's tried to absorb people on his power class (Surfer, Loki, sometimes even Juggernaut) and failed due to being too much power.

As a rule of thumb, Rogue has shown herself incapable of absorbing people with strong minds without losing control of the body, and people with high levels of power.


I never said that she didn't absorb Iceman's power's, it says:

Iceman X-Treme X-Men #13
Though it is unknown when Rogue absorbed Iceman, she manifests his power in this issue, so she must have touched and absorbed him at least once.

In otherwords, she absorbed Drake but it wasn't show on panel EXACTLY like Cecilia Reyes.

But that hardly changes the fact, nor the possibility and the said can be said for Wanda and Jean. Though they're both classified as Omega class mutants they're all but immue to Rogue's powers.

Though, I agree with the strong minds statement to a degree as that would explain Sinister.

But you're confusing the point. She didn't gain anything but residues of their psyche in the case of Loki AND Surfer.

Juggernaut is a special case in himself. I can speculate on this myself and more likely than not it's because Juggernaut's powers aren't necessarily his own. That is they were given to him via mystical paraphenalia.

As I'm typing this should probably be another limit to Rogue's abilites as I've never known her to be able to absorb someone of the likes of Dr. Strange.

On a mental note, Juggernaut's mind is one screwed up place to begin with so I can imagine how that would have an adverse effect physcologically as well much like Warren as Death I when she absorbed him.

Bottomline is that you can't argue with textbook or in this case comicbook definitions especially since they are still considered canon as I've just clearly displayed.

More to the point, everyone that you've listen to be exceptions has been mentioned somewhere either totally avoiding having their powers absorbed but they STILL leave a residue of their persona in her psyche and/or they are at least able to MAINTAIN CONSIOUSNESS including Juggernaut and Mojo as stated on the MarvelDatabase project.

Not to mention neither, Thor, Surfer, Loki, Mojo, or even Juggernaut (something I wanted to slap the living s**t out of Brett Ratner for screwing with) are mutants.

...and she'd be a beast if Marvel hadn't screwed it up made her lose all of her templates post-Vargas and learned how to manually control them as anything she's ever absorbed from anyone would have the POTENTIAL to manifest once again.

Also, I would like to know your source of the "Limit as to how much she absorbs" statement. As far as I've read I've seen nothing mentioned of her being only to able absorbed the amount presently used.

Kuroudo Akabane


The Deadpool
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:53 pm


Again, she absorbed Iceman off panel with a lowered power. She doesn't absorb the potential, she absorbs what they've reached at the time. Gambit is another prime example of a grossly powerful mutant, but she only absorbs his weakened powers, not the full potential.

The whole "Too much power, causing feedback" thing was used with Surfer and a handful others, with few exceptions (Thor the most notable one, first appearance was long before her powers were defined, and Contest of Champions II was... Again, SPIDER-MAN). She doesn't absorb to a point she passes out though, if the person's power is just that much higher than hers, she just takes hands off in shock/pain. Again, Surfer and Loki are prime examples, but I remember Juggernaut doing that once too.

Rogue is powerful, no doubt, and always capable of absorbing non mutants (she goes for life force. Were it not for the power level thing, she could even absorb Heralds, since Power Cosmic is connected to the soul), but not Omega. Even with the mighty recall powers, she's not on the same level as an Omega.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:10 pm


The Deadpool
Again, she absorbed Iceman off panel with a lowered power. She doesn't absorb the potential, she absorbs what they've reached at the time. Gambit is another prime example of a grossly powerful mutant, but she only absorbs his weakened powers, not the full potential.

The whole "Too much power, causing feedback" thing was used with Surfer and a handful others, with few exceptions (Thor the most notable one, first appearance was long before her powers were defined, and Contest of Champions II was... Again, SPIDER-MAN). She doesn't absorb to a point she passes out though, if the person's power is just that much higher than hers, she just takes hands off in shock/pain. Again, Surfer and Loki are prime examples, but I remember Juggernaut doing that once too.

Rogue is powerful, no doubt, and always capable of absorbing non mutants (she goes for life force. Were it not for the power level thing, she could even absorb Heralds, since Power Cosmic is connected to the soul), but not Omega. Even with the mighty recall powers, she's not on the same level as an Omega.


Never said that she passes out but the person absorbee, the person whom she absorbs. Needless to say this is a COMMON occurance as some people both mutants and humans have lost consciousness on several occassions most notably her late boyfriend and a good chunk of people listed sans those who have noted not to passout i.e. Magneto, Colossus, Surfer, Angel are just a few examples of those who have remained conscious after coming into direct skin to skin contact with Rogue.

Go ahead with your Spidey explanation btw since I can virtually tell you're dying to enlighten me on the subject.

But alas, the writers still screwed her up. I have the right mind to say that I've rather have her depowered altogether like several mutants after House of M than to have Sunfire's powers. I'm not saying that the man completely sucked but we've known Rogue to have Carol Danver's powers for SO MANY YEARS and now they do this.

Just really bugs the hell out of me.
=P

Kuroudo Akabane


The Deadpool
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:41 pm


I know how her powers work, who passes out and who doesn't. The why generally has to do with length of contact.

There is no mystery to Spider-Man. Dude has a full body suit. Even if he wasn't a precog, holding his neck ain't enough to absorb him, no matter WHO'S controlling her body. Contest of Champions II screwed up on her powers...

And Sunfire is far more powerful than the Carol Danvers she absorbed...

All she lost was strength. Still got flight and damage resistance...
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