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 Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:31 am
I'm leaving this extremely open ended on purpose...
Do you think morality is defined by our actions, or by what's in our hearts?
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:43 am
Morality makes me laugh. Pure and simple. The whole concept of "the conscience" is complete crap - it's a series of driven-in guidelines for the purpose of either stopping yourself from looking bad or helping yourself look good. Everything humans do is selfish. Humans are a "social animal" only in the hope that they get something back from "society".
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:53 am
greatdevourer Morality makes me laugh. Pure and simple. The whole concept of "the conscience" is complete crap - it's a series of driven-in guidelines for the purpose of either stopping yourself from looking bad or helping yourself look good. Everything humans do is selfish. Humans are a "social animal" only in the hope that they get something back from "society". I think I found something of yours greatdevourer... it's kinda squished from someone trampling it, and in a few dozen pieces, but It's your heart nevertheless... It sounds like you don't want it back, so I'll gently place it here next to your post... You have no faith in mankind, do you? You have no faith, do you? no conscience? no soul? no free will? you don't agree? I believe in morality.. I believe that at some point in man's life, they are able to acknowledge his/her actions will hurt another. humans have the ability to weigh these choices... It's not all "herd mentality"... you sound like you don't believe in being able to be compassionate either... true? You don't think man can actually care for others, it just boosts his/her status/ well being? ----------------- Well, I'll its a valid argument at least... the problem with morality is that its ALL valid, we can't actually fight something that we know nothing of, so thanks for sharing the idea, no matter how wrong i think it is...
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:14 pm
Oh, yes, he hates humanity all right... I have over fifty pages of transcripts proving soXD
Me? I'm not too bothered, I generally go on the principal of all life is equal, some is just more equal then others. Some not specifically human life etc. but whatever deserves it in my eyes.
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:53 pm
greatdevourer Morality makes me laugh. Pure and simple. The whole concept of "the conscience" is complete crap - it's a series of driven-in guidelines for the purpose of either stopping yourself from looking bad or helping yourself look good. Everything humans do is selfish. Humans are a "social animal" only in the hope that they get something back from "society". Well du-uh... What else would you be a Social animal for, if not to be more successfull at making your Genes live on? Every Social animal works by this principle - in teams, we happen to be capable of more than we would otherwise be able to do by ourselves. If helping other people and obeying the concepts we put out as "Morality" is what is necessary to sustain such powerfull Social Constructs, then so be it.
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:29 pm
I must not live in reality (I try not to live in reality anyway).
I think one's own ideas of right and wrong... not actions, not to survive, but come from the heart, from an inner sense of right and wrong.
Our actions show what is in our hearts, but it doesn't define what is in our hearts, nor does it define our morality.
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:56 pm
Wet Lettuce I must not live in reality (I try not to live in reality anyway). I think one's own ideas of right and wrong... not actions, not to survive, but come from the heart, from an inner sense of right and wrong. Our actions show what is in our hearts, but it doesn't define what is in our hearts, nor does it define our morality. This "inner sense of right and wrong" is still a learnt force. You aren't born with it.
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:01 pm
greatdevourer Wet Lettuce I must not live in reality (I try not to live in reality anyway). I think one's own ideas of right and wrong... not actions, not to survive, but come from the heart, from an inner sense of right and wrong. Our actions show what is in our hearts, but it doesn't define what is in our hearts, nor does it define our morality. This "inner sense of right and wrong" is still a learnt force. You aren't born with it. To a point: babies, much like animals, can sense bad things/ people... if you've dealt with kids much, you know what I mean, they are measurably more uncomfortable around people our society deems as "bad" without the cues our society gives people as to what is acceptable. I think one IS born with senses of right and wrong in the simplest sense: pure good vs pure evil... and although yes our society definitely shapes what we deem as right and wrong, I don't think it creates it. Besides... someone had to come up with these ideas of right and wrong... evolutionary, guidelines for surviving... whatever you want as an answer: they did not come from nothing... they had to have stemmed SOMEWHERE in our history, and enough people would have felt it, however far back, that it stuck in the world...
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:16 pm
Probably the only real thing I'm scared of is not knowing what happens after death, think of it as I do...
1. you could die then not be able to think (try to think about not thinking, I've tried, not easy, but think of a friend not thinking, should be easy)
2. you die and wake up in heaven/hell (exactly what it says, almost makes me want to beilive in God, but still no)
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:39 pm
Septomor Probably the only real thing I'm scared of is not knowing what happens after death, think of it as I do... 1. you could die then not be able to think (try to think about not thinking, I've tried, not easy, but think of a friend not thinking, should be easy) 2. you die and wake up in heaven/hell (exactly what it says, almost makes me want to beilive in God, but still no) Is a God that forces your worship with the threat of eternal torment something you want to be worshiping?
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:19 pm
rugged Septomor Probably the only real thing I'm scared of is not knowing what happens after death, think of it as I do... 1. you could die then not be able to think (try to think about not thinking, I've tried, not easy, but think of a friend not thinking, should be easy) 2. you die and wake up in heaven/hell (exactly what it says, almost makes me want to beilive in God, but still no) Is a God that forces your worship with the threat of eternal torment something you want to be worshiping? I said that I don't want to worship him
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:38 pm
Septomor rugged Septomor Probably the only real thing I'm scared of is not knowing what happens after death, think of it as I do... 1. you could die then not be able to think (try to think about not thinking, I've tried, not easy, but think of a friend not thinking, should be easy) 2. you die and wake up in heaven/hell (exactly what it says, almost makes me want to beilive in God, but still no) Is a God that forces your worship with the threat of eternal torment something you want to be worshiping? I said that I don't want to worship him Yeah. Personally though, I might not be so disinclined towards the idea of believing in "God" if they only came up with one that I liked the sound of... lol, then I'd only be Atheist because it remains the Theory that best fits the evidence that we have, even though I'd like the idea of a higher power. (Something like what Tthe Greeks had would be cool - with lots of female Gods and ones that are responsable for different things....)
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:52 pm
A conscience is based on fundamental rules and guidlines that are drummed into you from the time that you are born, by society. These rules and guidlines are nessisary for the society to work. You are handed a basic sense of right and wrong and you develope them through out you rlife. You will bend them, test them, step on them a little, but for the most part people dont over step them because it is wrong, or it is not socailly acceptable, or it goes against your personal beliefs. In my opinion religion is a very creative way to inandate the masses with a "conscience." Think about it they are basic rules and guidlines tell you how to live your life acceptably and most people push them, and test them, and bend them, and develope but in the end they still believe in them and follow them. You are not born with it, there is no part of your brain where a little devil or angel tells you what to do (if there is your mentally ill.) It is a learned behavior. Now think about this, parents are the primary "conscience dispensers," most people, whether they realize it or not, gage how good a parent some one is on how well they passed on this sense ofr right or wrong (conscience). Do you agree thats what makes a good parent good (primarily)?
I think that very little if anything is pure-good or pure evil. Many things come pretty close though.
If God, as some people portray him, were human we would assasinate him. He is unjust, unforgiving, judgemental, tyranical, self appointedly all-powerful, he tells you how to live, who to love, and what to say, that you can ONLY believe in him, that you cant think for yourself outside of his rules, and if you step out of bounds on any of them in the least he'll let you rot and leave you in misery and unimaginable pain for all eternity. He rules with fear, hence the term "good god fearing woman/man." Would you really chose to be ruled by some one of that nature? Can you really respect something like that? Would you want to live your life by fear? Unfortunately, and I know this is not PC, FOR THE MOST PART it is the uneducated, the naive, the easily influenced and the lower 80% of the population that are made to believe in this, they cant comprehend anything else. Unfortunatly that is a lot of people. The upside is, they all now have a conscience and probably wont do much harm stare xd
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:59 am
Hmm... On the God issue, I think the bible is just moral guidlines and is pretty much metaphorical.
What are you trying to answer? Whether morality is good in itself? It can be good for the majority but imorality can be good in some sense for the minority (abortion in mitigating cercumstances, etc.). I think certain aspects of morality is good for some, but is constraining for others. I mean, if you can't take risks and such then you can't really take advantage of the greater good out there, even if some of those risks maybe immoral. Such as animal testing, some of what they do maybe considered immoral and risks have to be taken, but it's for the greater good of the majority, right? Hm, not too sure on that.
Morality means different things to different people. Some people believe that abortion in all ways and forms under all circumstances is totally and completely immoral; ditto for animal testing too.
Would it be "wrong" to tell person that they didn't like a piece they'd composed and spent so long on working and trying to make it sound good? If they had said they liked it they would be lying so would that be worse? Lying to make someone happy, or telling them the truth that would hurt them?
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:19 am
moon_child113 If God, as some people portray him, were human we would assasinate him. He is unjust, unforgiving, judgemental, tyranical, self appointedly all-powerful, he tells you how to live, who to love, and what to say, that you can ONLY believe in him, that you cant think for yourself outside of his rules, and if you step out of bounds on any of them in the least he'll let you rot and leave you in misery and unimaginable pain for all eternity. He rules with fear, hence the term "good god fearing woman/man." Would you really chose to be ruled by some one of that nature? Can you really respect something like that? Would you want to live your life by fear? Common misconception. He does not punish and "send you to hell". Simply put, if we keep rejecting him, he eventually rejects us... and he's got a slight upper hand in that department... Also, "unforgiving" and "judgemental"? Last time I checked, the point of Christianity was forgiveness rolleyes Quote: Unfortunately, and I know this is not PC, FOR THE MOST PART it is the uneducated, the naive, the easily influenced and the lower 80% of the population that are made to believe in this, they cant comprehend anything else. Unfortunatly that is a lot of people. Makes me laugh... Please, learn more about your enemy before you start the assault... To be honest, even if you don't believe there is such a thing, you should live as if there were. It keeps you in check, thinking about what you've done asking yourself what would someone say if they saw you at that point.
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