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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:10 pm
Discuss/Debate Politics here. And remember, no flaming. Keep it ONLY to Politics.
Anyways, how about Dio for 2008? >_>
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:22 pm
Actually, I was thinking Dee Snider, but, Dio is a good choice. If only one of them would run... Actually Dee wouldn't be a bad choice... *fantasizes* "And President Snider has just signed a bill outlawing the making of or listening to Rap and Pop music. The metalheads are singing on the streets, singing Metal!"
Please don't flame me for this, keep it intellectual please, but does anyone else like President Bush?
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:36 pm
I for one, don't care for George W. Bush. =/ I just don't think he's that great of a leader.
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:46 pm
You know, I thought George Bush Jr. was only taking a crap on us, the "others", but as I now realize he likes to take big loads of crap on his own country, I could never say he represents a good, let alone standard leader...
To my knowledge, he has been a disgrace for the world and for the people he should be focusing on comanding...
Is anyone aware of "outside" politics? Talking about global here, just asuming most of you are from the US.
Does anyone know about what's happening in Venezuela or something like that?
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technical_difficulties Crew
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:43 pm
1. Shade, thank you for being respectful towards our leader, I have respect for that response and your opinion as opposed to "Bush Sucks" or "Bush is stupid".
2. I believe Bush is a great leader because he has tried to do good work for his country, as opposed to fulfilling an agenda. The Liberals in congress right now just don't seem to get it. The war in Iraq is not going as poorly as the media presents it. I have had the opportunity to speak with family members of a soldier serving in Iraq, and the girlfriend of Jeff Hardy, the wrestler, whose band performed in Iraq. The people who have witnessed this war first hand support it, and know it is not as bad as it is presented. The people over there love having us there. The people killing our troops are not Iraqi's. but Iranian insurgents, who are trying to get the Iraqi's to fail. Also, I see that the liberals are only trying to raise themselves up. They have passed every thinkable measure to accommodate illegal immigrants in this country, and to make sure we can't get rid of them. They provide health care, they make it impossible to deport them, they make it easy for them to find a place to live, easy for them to work, and then when the illegals cost us billions of dollars, they raise taxes on us. Why do they let the illegals in? so that they can get more votes. They know the illegals will vote Democrat, so they want them in, It is all a power game to them. The Republicans in congress, and Bush seem to be focusing on the issues that are relevant to the people, including money and safety. I believe wholeheartedly that we are safer by fighting the terrorists in their own home than by letting them bring the war to us. They want every American dead, and they are not to be taken lightly. And Thechnical_difficulties, could you elaborate please?
And what about Snider 08?
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:12 pm
Do you mean to ask that I should elaborate on my Bush opinion or on my international politics knowledge? Because if it's the lattest, I am focusing on South American issues the most... but I don't think it's the lattest >_>
Also, I deem your vision over the Iraq war to be a bit over simplistic. Think about it for just a second, there are two kind of muslims in Iraq, Chiites (in spanish it's called "Chiitas", but I don't really know how you guys name them), and Sunites.
Sunites were supporters of the Saddam Hussein regime, because he was from a Sunite background himself.
Chiites were massacred by Hussein, and that's the crime for which he paid and was hanged for. The Chiite massacre back in the 80's (I believe it was in the 80's but feel free to correct me). Since Saddam's regime was not imposed by force on the Iraqi people but rather chosen by popular vote (leaving out the chances of fraud, of course), he couldn't be found guilty on a "dictatorship", simply because he was "democraticaly" elected, so he was hanged by the massacre, the sentence was of course a big excuse because it was settled from the beginning that he was to be executed, even if they had to charge him for drinking a guard's kool-aid.
Believe you me when I say that "Irani insurgents that want Iraq to fail" sounds like an unbelievably blatant excuse for turning the eye to Iran and keep this "Crusade" going on. And, a very convenient excuse, that is; because the "Irani insurgents" just "insurged" when the bilateral relationships between the U.S. and Iran broke completely thanks to Iran's nuclear development (pass a note to your president that it's spelled "nuclear" rather than "nuculear", and that's coming from a guy who doesn't speak english as his first language).
I, as a humble citizen of the world, recognize that every country has hidden agendas, even the U.S., and that countries like yours aren't formed by citizenship, people, and democracy no longer. A "country" is, today, just a small list of corporations that are big enough to select the president they want to govern you, despite your constituted right to freely vote.
Don't take me for a conspiracionist though, if that's what I sound like, because a conspiracy would be a mock-mirror of this whole bussiness. Let's not distort things and try to keep it real.
The statements you make as "They want every American dead", "we are safer by figting the terrorists in their own home than by letting them bring the war to us", "it is all a power game to THEM", "people over there love having us there" sound incredibly propagandistic.
I would advice for you to do your research on both sides of the story, and, my friend, it's ALL a power game. Don't let anyone make you believe otherwise.
US supported Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan while they conveniently signed their oil treaties back in the 70's, they just couldn't let commies to raise as a powerful influence at the end of the 80's, thus the little war you had over there with Bush Sr.; the Russians were AGAINST the middle easterns, you think it was them who gave them the Kalashnikovs? The US armed the middle east with the deployed AK-47's, the very same guns your soldiers are getting shot at with nowadays.
Bush Sr. couldn't afford to kill Hussein back then, you think it was profitable to kill one of biggest suppliers of oil in the Middle East? Or do you honestly believe that the 90's war with Iraq wasn't easily capable of taking Hussein down?
It was, but they wouldn't do it, not with their "non existant" agenda. Same reason why today's "non existant" agenda determined that Hussein had to fall.
We are all human beings first, mate, I don't want every American dead, as much as I don't want every Iraqi dead, and as much as any Iraqi and Irani don't want every American dead. If you believe that, then open wide... because here comes the spoon and it smells like crap.
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technical_difficulties Crew
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:40 pm
1. Not all the Iragi's want Americans dead, only the terrorist. That is what I meant. 2. I do hear both sides. I see the propaganda on the Mainstream Media, and I hear the conservative side on talk radio, and I tend to believe talk radio more, because Larry Elder and Bill O'reily have no agenda, they are not trying to get the higher ratings, and they, like me, question everything said on the mainstream media. 3. I do have my eyes open, trust me, I see that war is not a fun thing and that having soldiers die is not a good thing, but it is sometimes necessary. Many people oppose the war now, but in retrospect, we will see it is worth it. If we had the media we do now during Civil War times, the Civil War would have failed. People were opposed to it now, but in retrospect it was necessary. About the "better to have the war there" That in my opinion, is not propaganda. I would rather have soldiers who gladly put their lives on the line to defend a country they love die (though I don't want them to) than innocent civilians going to work or walking down the street.
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:52 pm
I assure you there are many innocent civilians who die everyday in that land your country's soldiers are fighting in..
better them than us, right?
I don't believe there's a single person in the world who prefers to wage war at their homeland rather than in some poor country
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technical_difficulties Crew
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:37 pm
Politics are a subject of the which I normally don't like to discuss, because as much as I would think I know, there's a million things more I wouldn't know, and of course, there's not really a trustable source of information(what tells you that those speaking do not want you to see things only in a certain way?). However, on the immigrants, I have something to say: Who would do all the jobs immigrants do if they were not there to take them? By this I don't mean that the US would be lost, It's just a question I've always had.
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:55 pm
durrypoo Politics are a subject of the which I normally don't like to discuss, because as much as I would think I know, there's a million things more I wouldn't know, and of course, there's not really a trustable source of information(what tells you that those speaking do not want you to see things only in a certain way?). However, on the immigrants, I have something to say: Who would do all the jobs immigrants do if they were not there to take them? By this I don't mean that the US would be lost, It's just a question I've always had. This is a matter that affects every country... I live in one which is in it's eternal way to develop as a first world country, but still we have lots of troubles that only third world countries have... and illegal immigration affects us too. We take it on Peruvians and Bolivians; they come here illegaly, sometimes commit crimes, sometimes earn their bucks by some under-the-table payment and sometimes they try and be honest... people complain as always, we "want them out", but the question still rises... illegal immigrants are here to supply their services performing jobs you and me think to be soffisticated enough to avoid (which is stupid, if I need to be clear on the subject). So, illegal aliens don't take your job, they just supply to the demand, as we all do. We adopted a policy to legalize illegal aliens for free too, and I'm keen to that... If we have the possibility, I believe we can spare something to help them out and have a good way of living as we all do. And I'm talking from a "third world" country... I can't imagine bastards in rich countries, like the U.S., or the U.K. where poverty reaches 3.1 % of the total populi, while in my country we now have a decent 13 %, cutted back from the 51 % we had a couple of years ago saying they can't afford to spare some dimes to help the unfortunate. And then they are the same people that scratch their heads asking themselves "Why is the world the way it is now?". Have you ever seen the movie "Brazil"? The part where they are strolling down the highway with the semi-truck, and the highway has a continuous display of commercial ads all stuck together so you can't see what's on the other side of the highway.... Then the camera rises and outside that beautiful highway with the nice ads, you see desolation, ruins and miles and miles of destruction..... ... this situation makes me think of just that
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technical_difficulties Crew
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:07 pm
technical_difficulties durrypoo Politics are a subject of the which I normally don't like to discuss, because as much as I would think I know, there's a million things more I wouldn't know, and of course, there's not really a trustable source of information(what tells you that those speaking do not want you to see things only in a certain way?). However, on the immigrants, I have something to say: Who would do all the jobs immigrants do if they were not there to take them? By this I don't mean that the US would be lost, It's just a question I've always had. This is a matter that affects every country... I live in one which is in it's eternal way to develop as a first world country, but still we have lots of troubles that only third world countries have... and illegal immigration affects us too. We take it on Peruvians and Bolivians; they come here illegaly, sometimes commit crimes, sometimes earn their bucks by some under-the-table payment and sometimes they try and be honest... people complain as always, we "want them out", but the question still rises... illegal immigrants are here to supply their services performing jobs you and me think to be soffisticated enough to avoid (which is stupid, if I need to be clear on the subject). So, illegal aliens don't take your job, they just supply to the demand, as we all do. We adopted a policy to legalize illegal aliens for free too, and I'm keen to that... If we have the possibility, I believe we can spare something to help them out and have a good way of living as we all do. And I'm talking from a "third world" country... I can't imagine bastards in rich countries, like the U.S., or the U.K. where poverty reaches 3.1 % of the total populi, while in my country we now have a decent 13 %, cutted back from the 51 % we had a couple of years ago saying they can't afford to spare some dimes to help the unfortunate. And then they are the same people that scratch their heads asking themselves "Why is the world the way it is now?". Have you ever seen the movie "Brazil"? The part where they are strolling down the highway with the semi-truck, and the highway has a continuous display of commercial ads all stuck together so you can't see what's on the other side of the highway.... Then the camera rises and outside that beautiful highway with the nice ads, you see desolation, ruins and miles and miles of destruction..... ... this situation makes me think of just that Heh, in Mexico we have ******** 51% of extreme poverty, and that is mostly due to problems in education, education is the cure to many diseases in the world, and us are not an exception. A bit of Finances, History, Society and Philosophy are mainly what opens up one's eyes(this coming from someone studying engineering). And I agree that aliens don't 'take away' the jobs, they simply do the jobs nobody else wants to do because they are 'top of the tops'(though they also need money to buy food).
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:55 am
About the illegals,
Who would take the jobs? How about our unemployed population? We have a very high unemployment rate, I don't know the exact number, but there are enough to fill the jobs. I would gladly flip burgers at Mcdonald's for minimum wage, and so would a lot of teens. It is very hard for teens to find jobs because all of the illegals have them. Also, somebody did a study, and calculated that if we were to get rid of illegals and raise the pay about 30%, a house would only cost $1,500 more per $300,000, apples would go up $.03. There were a lot of interesting statistics there. It wouldn't be hard to move along. And what about the fact that they are stealing from every taxpayer in your countries. They do these jobs, but don't pay taxes. 1/3 of all incarcerated males in America are illegals. We are providing them with health care, they are taking our education. The Government money that this takes is in the Billions of dollars a year. It's outrageous.
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technical_difficulties Crew
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:37 am
I fully understand the way you think about the problem because you are U.S. citizen, but I take you didn't understand the picture I painted with the 80's movie classic.
Because you are currently reducing thought to that same highway.
So it would be possible to mend the holes and repaint the highway, so it would mean you can have a bump-free ride, but you would be just painting your glasses thick black.
The situation is not a disgrace, the world is, and it's our own fault. We can't just keep applying the "each man for itself" policy; that same blindness drove us to the world as it is today, and if someone isn't aware yet, we are eating away our own planet and humanity won't be celebrating 2100 if we keep this beautiful way to handle things.
You can't keep bulding barriers between people and blindly say "the world is beautiful" just because you can leave your house door open and your car unlocked in your neighbourhood.
If I was an illegal immigrant, there would be no wall high enough, no dog fast enough, no bullet accurate enough to stop my ******** will to live.
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:29 pm
Technical, I love your political knowledge. 3nodding I never take the time to study lots of uncorrupted forms of media, but I know a tad. :3
I get my information from, and don't mock me, The Daily Show with John Stewart, and the Colbert Report. Although these are of course joke shows, if you've ever paid attention to a few episodes, they always tell the actual issue before the joke, plus they always have writers who come on and talk about politics. I don't think they're corrupted or [if you can see through Colbert's thick sarcasm] that either one of them have a certain political agenda, unlike basically any other news shows. This is because they make fun of [or at least the daily show does] all political parties. But anyway...
Bill Oreily, does have an agenda. He's on Fox news is he not? Fox news is infamous forbeing blatantly conservative. Feel free to correct me, but that is what I have gathered.
Personally, I still think that the war in Iraq is completely pointless. The only reason Bush has offered is "because we want to free the people" and isn't it so nice to have such a caring leader that he'd spend Trilions of dollars to help them out. No, Bush has a blatant agenda. He either wants to finish what his father started, or he wants oil, or both. Either way, what is going on there is completely unjust. He makes Americans look even more stupid to the rest of the world. e.e; Trying to force democracy on Iraq is defeating the purpose of a revolution. In order for a revolution to work the people have to be willing to work toward that change in order for it to work. We cant just do the work for them. We bled for our freedom, we didn't have a third party to come in and show us how to do it, and tell us why we should.
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Clasion Rainheart Captain
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technical_difficulties Crew
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:45 am
Thanks Clasion wink
I'm just very passionate about politics... and I take my time to read the newspapers, watch the media, and stuff. I read a right wing newspaper that's pro-government (of our country, of course), a neutral one and a left-wing paper. I also watch the media (I use to watch a generic one, plus CNN in Spanish), and I also read a Colombian newspaper to stay updated on the Venezuelan situation.
I do also get some news (or sort of news) from a very famous (in my country) TV show that also mocks politics, it's not a talk show though where they interview people and s**t... they go out with a camera and bug the hell out of politicians, some sort of Michael Moore's The Awful Truth, but done much better and thought of lots of years before Michael Moore was even heard of hehe.
The deal with getting info from politics "mock" shows is because people react better to information presented as surreal, irreal, unbelievable, or just plain ridiculous and incorporate it much more effectively with a laugh than with concern.
Because this "riculously" presented news cannot enter the concience of some people by the plain way of communicating; like all media handles.
My girlfriend is a news reporter, I am a psychologist; believe you me when I tell you that truth does not exist, coming from both of us.
As a psychologist I will tell you that every person has a different pair of shades that they use constantly, they bath with them, sleep, eat, watch news, and walk down the street with them on. There are as much shades as people in the world; sometimes shades unite because they share a focal point; but they are, as any eye-doctor would say, multi-focal.
Events in your life determine your behaviour as much as your understandment of reality; every people constructs their own reality in the basis of communication and language. Truth is always, then, subjective; in all cases, for all people.
She as a news reporter would tell you: media communicates, but also reserves. They do not, however, reserve information for lack of relevance or a hidden agenda of their own (that's what people like Larry King or anyone with a big enough reputation and a show of their own will do if necessary to retain their own credibility).
Media responds to government; in the field, newsreporters are in constant communication with police, different law enforcements and legal advisors. There are things we cannot show you, by request of higher powers.
Information isn't free, and that's not a big deal; if information was absolutely free, people couldn't absorb it. We can't even absorb the incredible amount of information now, believe it or not, today we have TOO MUCH information to handle on our own.
The big deal with information restriction is who's doing the restriction, on what grounds, with what agenda and how do they select what they want us to broadcast.
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