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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:27 pm
 >> Only the blackest of hearts
When you are writing a book, short story, novella, whatever - how much research do you do? Do you keep specifically to topics that require no research? Or do you put even the nameless, minor characters into the Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu test, keep a thesaurus at your side, and have wikipedia open at all times during your writing process?
I myself am the latter, I have done extensive research on the American government, even though the character's government position plays little role in the story. I have read the thesaurus straight through, and I have gone through each character - be it the cashier at Starbucks or a small child who walks past the character on the straight - through the 100-some question Mary Sue test.
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:39 pm
im a bit of both, i dont go overboard with research but if a topc im gonna write about needs research i do it. unless of course it needs so MUCH research i dont have time to do it all...
as for the mary-sue thing, i never really got why people hate "mary-sues" so much, but this is partially cuz i never really understood what a mary sue really is.... but usually when people say "oh this character was such a mary sue" i just kinda tilt my head and think "but that was my favorite character..." cuz it usually is XD then again im weird, and them "mary sues" seem to be the funnier characters and i like funny so i tend to be drawn to them. *shrugs*
~Rin
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:16 pm
Anime-himeRin im a bit of both, i dont go overboard with research but if a topc im gonna write about needs research i do it. unless of course it needs so MUCH research i dont have time to do it all... as for the mary-sue thing, i never really got why people hate "mary-sues" so much, but this is partially cuz i never really understood what a mary sue really is.... but usually when people say "oh this character was such a mary sue" i just kinda tilt my head and think "but that was my favorite character..." cuz it usually is XD then again im weird, and them "mary sues" seem to be the funnier characters and i like funny so i tend to be drawn to them. *shrugs* ~Rin
Mary Sues tend to discourage people from liking a story.
Mary Sue - a character who all characters of the opposite gender like (or in the case of some anime - same gender); a character who is "perfect in everyway" (smart, pretty, athletic, etc.); a character who cannot be defeated (a.k.a. god-moding); a character who can charm characters who, until this point, never showed an emotional capacity, and if they would fall for somebody - would most certainly not be that person
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:31 pm
I normally tend to hate those characters (and so do my characters) because everything just seems too easy for them, never having any problems or faults. As for my own characters, I've never put them through one of those tests, but many other personality/personality disorder related ones. I also tend to make the main character (the one most likely to be part demon) incapable of dying, but he feels so much pain for that reason that any sane person would choose death. Also, most of my characters have insane tendencies, and are normally the genius type with something wrong physically or just their life in general. I do quite a bit of research, since many of my plots are government-involved, and in other countries or timelines.
By the way, where are the "Mary Sue" tests? I've heard you mention them, but have no luck finding one.
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:38 pm
[x][x] - they are very similar tests, you can take either...
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:55 am
what the hell? the nthat a*****e who flamed my story lied, the character wasnt a mary sue! so they happened to be the hero, big whoop.... if i had wanted it to be a mary sue it wouldve been SO much worse (i notice i sometimes create characters like that just for the purpose of them being hated XD like there will be a mary sue who is there and some most of the characters will hate them, but i still create them anyway just for added laughs!)
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:40 am
Anime-himeRin what the hell? the nthat a*****e who flamed my story lied, the character wasnt a mary sue! so they happened to be the hero, big whoop.... if i had wanted it to be a mary sue it wouldve been SO much worse (i notice i sometimes create characters like that just for the purpose of them being hated XD like there will be a mary sue who is there and some most of the characters will hate them, but i still create them anyway just for added laughs!) sometimes people don't realize how "Mary-Sue" their character is, and sometimes heroes are Mary Sues (or Gary Stus, as is more commonly the case) - however, I don't really know what character you are speaking of, so I couldn't judge.
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:44 pm
I think the test is a bit off. I tried taking it for my favorite character (you know who he is, but I'm not going to post his name) and it came out extremely high. Then I thought "Why not take this as someone who I know wouldn't get a high score?" and it ended badly. Apparantly, Zabuza is a Mary-Sue. Go figure... I answered every question as him, using extensive research on everything the series has ever said about him, and his score was very high as well, so I don't even know anymore.
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:00 am
yeah if ZABUZA can pass that test, theres something a bit off about it XD
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:07 am
>> Only the blackest of hearts
Well - that is because he IS a character who has a personality type that can be found a lot (especially in the anime world) - which, by if YOU write it, then you are creating a Mary Sue because characters like that already exist (another part of the definition of Mary Sue) - however, since he already existed in one of the insanely popular fandoms; then it doesn't really count.
Kinda like calling Shakespeare cliche (as me and Rin were discussing); he CREATED the cliches, he didn't follow them.
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:06 am
So a Mary-Sue is also just a character who's basically similar to any other character who's "been done before"? But it's impossible to create someone completely original, and a pretty unlikely feat to be able to hate them all. My character's story is unique (as far as everything I've seen/read goes) but to make the character's personality completely unique just doesn't happen. There is only so much differentiation you can make for someone's personality type. Most of them have been done before.
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:33 am
kaibaboy38 So a Mary-Sue is also just a character who's basically similar to any other character who's "been done before"? But it's impossible to create someone completely original, and a pretty unlikely feat to be able to hate them all. My character's story is unique (as far as everything I've seen/read goes) but to make the character's personality completely unique just doesn't happen. There is only so much differentiation you can make for someone's personality type. Most of them have been done before. Yes, well - they basically do it based of the classics, and the populars: Shakespeare, Greek Plays, Harry Potter, LotR, Naruto, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Pokemon, InuYasha, Fullmetal Alchemist - if I were to guess the main ones used for judging
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:47 pm
ive just come to not care about mary sues anymore.... i mean, making someone totally original and 100% free of cliche is impossible. then again, i just tend to not be like "this character is strikingly similar to that character therefore the author lacks originality." nor do i say things like "wow, this character is perfect in every way shape and form theyre a mary sue" i just kinda go "oh... look at that... whatever" but im weird, i know some people flip out when they read of characters like that (*stabs a*****e who flamed fic saying the OC was mary sue even though it WASNT*)
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Anime-himeRin ive just come to not care about mary sues anymore.... i mean, making someone totally original and 100% free of cliche is impossible. then again, i just tend to not be like "this character is strikingly similar to that character therefore the author lacks originality." nor do i say things like "wow, this character is perfect in every way shape and form theyre a mary sue" i just kinda go "oh... look at that... whatever" but im weird, i know some people flip out when they read of characters like that (*stabs a*****e who flamed fic saying the OC was mary sue even though it WASNT*)
what story, may I ask? I'd rather judge for myself then basing my opinion off of yours or his
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:38 am
tis in the last chapter of one of my multichapter fics, the only mary sue-ish characteristic was that they wound up saving tsuzuki and hisoka... well, not for nothing, there really wasnt any other way to end the story (i tried several other ways that were, even i noticed, pretty mary sue-ish) and this was the least cliche way to end it. it was still cliche, though. but it didnt deserve that jerk cursing me out and telling me i should never write again and all that jazz.... tis why i deleted their review 3nodding
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