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 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:12 am
 >> Only the blackest of hearts
Alright, so for the most part - the three most active people in this guild have the same views on everything... so the only logical way to make the DEBATE forum active, is to pick something that we all have somewhat different views on. I chose religion.
Religion is the organized worship of the deity or deities of your choice, be they spirits/gods/people or whatever else you may choose. Common religions are Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Satanism, Neo-Paganism, Shintoism, Hindu, etc. There are other religions (and as some may say, athiesm, although it would truly be an "organized worship" of not believing in any deity, or not seeing any of them as worthy of worship), but this is a generalized religious debate. You can debate over which one is correct (if you believe in none - then you can choose the agnostic, athiest, or non-religious POV) and you can debate over whatever else religious you please.
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:19 am
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone made this... It's the big debate. Well, as you knew, I'm atheist, and still trying to keep track of what you are. sweatdrop I don't believe in any form of god, although like the agnostics, I don't believe that any of this religious buisness can be known for sure. I am a big supporter of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, and probably read about it more than most people my age should. Also, due to the recent possible discovery of Jesus' bones, I feel the need to include this: I do believe that he was a person who walked this earth, as most do, but had no divine powers, and was just a man who went around preaching Judaism, not Christianity. Many people forget that he was, indeed, Jewish. As for specific events of the Bible, I'm not to knowledgable on the subject because I've been an atheist pretty much since I was old enough to choose (which, for me, was around eight), though I do know more of Revelations and the antichrist because I read Left Behind (very acurate) and watch the Omen, but I do not believe them to be any more than fiction (and entertaining to watch/read).
Yes, I can debate all day about religion, but I think I'll stop now and let someone else take a turn. Oh, Alex, a bit off subject but I'm getting a few Darwin/atheist books for my upcoming birthday (and a book of revolutionary writings, including the Communist Manifesto ninja ) if you want to read them sometime.
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:46 pm
Right, I will start as Kris-kun did, with my religious beliefs. Starting with the issuses you addressed.
Yes, I do believe Jesus Christ was a man, and I do not doubt that he was a great man - especially in the religious world. He had some great ideas, and he helped spread them with his religion - however, I doubt he was in any way divine. I also support the idea of evolution, as my main area of study is Anthropology/Archeology, it is kind of difficult for me to deny the heaps of evidence given for it. Now, here is my religion "breakdown".
Opportunist: You may say "that is not a religion" - stfu. It is a religion, obviously, because it is the religion that I am. I take bits and pieces of religions, follow them through, and use the ideas of them to which I follow whenever it pleases me. This is why I cannot say I am any of those religions, as I do not follow them completly through. I believe in magick/metaphysics, but I am also a very scientific person. So, below I am going to break down (from most used to least used) my religious beliefs.
Nihilist: for those of you who do not know what this is - this is a branch of agnosticism - except it does not only apply to religion, but to everything in the world. "There are no truths that can be known in this world" is the most simple way of describing it, no truths - be it religious or otherwise - can be known while we are alive, and until something "divine" happens - there is no way I will believe it entirely.
Athiest: most of the time, I will believe that there is no God/gods/goddesses/Goddess/etc. because I have seen no proof, what-so-ever, of divine intervention. Until I see some proof, I am going to be skeptical to the entire idea of religion. I am open to the idea that there could be gods/spirits out there, and I will not put the entire concept of religion down - but for the most part, I am going to stay in this area.
Shintoist/Buddhist: this was probably brought upon by my japanophilia... but whatever, I happen to quite like the ideas of this one too. Shintoism, for those of you who do not know, is mostly the worship of the natural spirits - although there are some gods involved too. Buddhism has no real gods, it is merely a philosophy to follow - something I quite like. While I myself and not a good person (hence why I do not follow Buddhism entirely) - I prefer religions with the basis that if you do certain things, then your next life or afterlife will be good, and if you don't, it will be bad - the end. There is no real obligations attatched. In addition, meditation is something I don't mind doing...
Antichristian: this is not Satanism. I do not, in any way, shape, or form worship, or even believe in, Satan. This is merely here to state the fact that I am strongly against the Christian beliefs; and if, for some reason, they were actually correct - I would probably begin the worship of the antichrist - however, until I know that he/she exists, I shall not worship them.
Neo-pagan: specifically, I am willing to believe in the Ancient Egyptian polytheistic concept for my Gods/Goddesses of choice - as some of you may notice, I tend to say Ra in the place of God ("Ra dammit" "Ra-forsaken"). Why? I don't know... I just sort of do.
The Rest: everything else I believe is so miniscule and barely religious that it just gets lumped into one category. In addition, most of these beliefs are based off of fiction (specifically the Greek mythology, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Final Fantasy VII). I believe that for everything gained, something equal must be lost - obviously, the philosophy of "equivalent exchange" introduced in FMA, but also addressed through Tiresius, "the blind seer". I also believe that there is a lifestream, where your soul goes once you die to rejoin the power of Earth, in a sense (watch the opening to Advent Children for more on that). So yeah, you can go where you want with that...
To Kris: *nods* I believe we own Communist Manifesto, but I will read your other books - I myself am getting the Lucifer Effect soon ('tis about the psychological change in a good person that turns them evil).
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:09 pm
my religion.... hmmm.... well, i believe that there is a god, one god. but i believe there are other gods and goddesses who work under him or some who work at about the same rank. its hard to explain, im sure only i can ever really understand my own beliefs, but yeah. and obviously i believe in magic/metaphysics, i see no reason NOT to...
and yeah. i wont even bother trying to explain anything. thats as much effort as im putting forward feeling like this....
~Rin
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:38 pm
Thank you, I finally understand it now. 3nodding You know, I found something quite interesting today for you to add to your list, called atheistic satanism. These people don't actually worship, or even believe in, Satan, they just... how shall I say this? Encourage the fact that the "seven deadly sins" and similar Christian beliefs of sin, are human nature. They seem to discourage illegal activity (which I didn't know) and the killing of innocents, but revenge is perfectly fine. I don't know much yet, but I shall do some more reading about the subject.
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:53 pm
>> Only the blackest of hearts
I'll denotedly mix it in with "antichristianity" - and now to actually start a bloody debate (this is the debate forum, if we don't debate - it's null and void). Rina... your religious beliefs are morally displeasing to me; for even if there are multiple gods, you have one that is prodominant above the others.
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:24 pm
I suppose I'll wait for her to post too, seeing as the two of us have very similar belief systems. We could make another thread about different forms of government, but we have similar opinions on that too.
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:29 am
*shrugs* i was raised to be christian, my brain refuses to accept that THE "god" may not be the predominant one.... if it werent drilled into my brain (11 years, man.... 11.... before i told them i was sick of them drilling their religion into my brain and they finally let me do my own thing) then i probably wouldnt believe it XD
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:34 am
>> Only the blackest of hearts
Well, I myself ignored the things my parents drilled into me (although religion was never one we had much debate about) - but I suppose there are people who tend to do so... I still haven't decided to be a mathematician... nearly 16 years of that nonsense...
And really... your parents, to my knowledge, don't act or do anything particularly... Christian. Your sister acts more Christian then either of them; but I suppose I don't know them that well... just... never heard of them going to Church, don't see too many "religious" things in your house...
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:38 am
thats for several reasons. we used to go to church every sunday, but my dad is pretty germaphobic and didnt like having to shake peoples hands so we had to stop going rofl there were other reasons too, i think... but yeah...
and when i was little, yeah, i tended to try to listen to what i was told. then i got sick of that and said i didnt want to go through with making conformation or going to religion classes (they seriously made me go to "religion class" @_@ it was so annoying!) or anything like that. took a LOT of convincing.... but eventually worked.
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:43 am
>> Only the blackest of hearts
Yeah, I know of religion class - my dad was dragged to it once, but HIS dad said it was a load of bullshit and stormed out angrily on the nuns xd . As I stated in my "religion post of doom" I am antichristian, so the entire concept of Christianity sickens me. As does germaphobia, but I am pretty sure you have seen George Carlin's view on the matter, which is essentially the same as mine...
Anyway, my parents are Athiests (Dad) and Pagan (Mom) so they were pretty indifferent to whatever the hell I wanted to do... so long as I wasn't a Catholic...
Can feel the purest of love <<
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:52 am
rofl niiiiice! yeah i dont like the idea that "god says this, god says that, you defy his will by even THIS MUCH and you GO TO HELL! twisted " o.O the whole repenting for sins thing is nice but you can only ask for forgiveness so many times, people! cuz there are some things that just arent ok to do, y'know?
that and as you know im really against the idea of being against homosexuality. that wasnt a reason i didnt like them religious loons then, but it is now.
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Amaya_Moonstone Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:38 am
My family's Catholic, but they really don't act like it. Most of them aren't strict about it, and there aren't any of them who say "You're going to hell for this". One of them even has homosexual friends, and can see that they're just like everyone else. But yes, about the religion being 'drilled into your brain', I was forced to go to religion as well until I made my first communion, but then they let me out of it because I would always have to be dragged in kicking and screaming. As a matter of fact, I they made me finish the teaching at home because they didn't want me back. rofl After that, they had a lot of nerve to ask why I suddenly decided to be atheist at... twelve or thirteen, I think. Seriously, I was always an atheist, I just never knew the name for it to actually say so. And yes, as a very young child, I did enjoy being read children's Bible stories... that I thought were complete fiction.
The brainwashing doesn't really have anything to do with it as long as you have a strong will and your mind is smart enough to know its own beliefs, and not just go by someone else's. For me, this age was about eight, perhaps a bit younger (I don't really remember how long I was in religious instruction). For most, this age (I presume) is somewhere around their teen years, if they ever choose to get their own system of beliefs. I don't really care what beliefs they have as long as they don't try to convert me... I get really annoyed with hearing "Why don't you believe in God?" and normally retort with "Why do you believe in God?" Although, there has only been one person really who cares that I'm atheist. My mom certainly doesn't; she's getting me a couple of books on the subject for my birthday.
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:06 am
Yeah, I just ignore people who ask me why I'm not a Christian; my parents believe in religious freedom (minus Catholics) so... it was never really an issue what I decided to be - my mother buys me books on witchcraft, athiesm, Satanism... and pretty much anything that I want that isn't from Japan (and several things that are - and on birthdays, well then it is free game - anime/manga/video games all around!).
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:23 am
Ha...now something to debate on...
Well to get started personally I'm going to have to go more out of alot of those religions because of the fact that I believe more of what the Native Americans did and that each of the deitys was an animal and that your spirit was connected with one of those animals...I talked to a Native American in fact right about the time that they consider one of their young to reach the age of manhood and asked them to help me find my spirit animal and I went through the whole process and I believe that my spirit animal is a Wolf...although I do feel something along the lines of a Bear as well but the pull towards a wolf spirit animal seemed to tug harder than the bear and that apparently is the way those kinds of things happen according to him.
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