|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:31 pm
So yet again I was convinced of this.
To play with Zerg, you need a lot of units. Much more than any other races.
You also need to micro them much more, since it's so easy to lose them.
Hence, when you're fighting a large army of another race, you need to be controlling more units and do more micro for each.
You also don't have the advantage of a "fire and forget" setup.
If a Terran player sieges a pile of tanks, a whole army can be obliterated in a few seconds.
If a Protoss player psi storms, or brings some reavers, again, you can wipe out the Zerg extremely quickly.
Now a Zerg player... the closest thing is bringing in some lurkers, but chances are they won't even manage to burrow (unless you use dark swarm, but that's a lot of effort).
You can plague, but that doesn't kill anything.
Pretty much the only way to kill something fast is to overwhelm it with numbers.
Your only chance of survival with Zerg is to outmacro the enemy, taking more expansions faster and taking down enemy ones constantly.
Then there's the fact that in early game, Zerg are very vulnerable. The Zerg player always has less units early on, because larva take forever, and you lose a drone for every building. You need to make a hatchery very early on, which is costly.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:45 pm
Maybe you're just not using Zerg correctly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:22 pm
That's not a very legitimate answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:37 pm
Yea, it's probably why the US team lack Zerg players...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:45 pm
Can't you give any real discussion?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:49 pm
Alright, alright. I'll cook something up.
Playing as Zerg doesn't actually require as much macro as you say. Well, you can do that, but there's always an alternate. You know how the Zerg has such amazing mobility, such as all those Overlords capable of dropping, nydus canals, mutas, speedlings and pretty fast hydras? Most of the upper tier Zerg players use that as their advantage; thus one of the best Zerg tactics is harassing. As a Protoss player, I can say that their mobility sucks. Sure, there are Shuttles, but plenty of Protoss players have more important investments than 200/0 Shuttles, which is quite a bad price tag. While Terrans do have their cheaper Dropships, and swift little Wraiths, they just can't compete with everything else the Zerg has.
So no, you don't actually need a lot of units. Well, you do actually. But it doesn't matter which race you are playing, because nevertheless if you're Terran, Protoss or Zerg, you always need more units. However, you do need more micro in order to maintain proper harassing. Not that it's that difficult, since it's mostly just clicking to move around, nothing too innovative is needed.
"Fire and forget" isn't a good idea for any race. Sieging a pile of tanks and going elsewhere can get you killed by a well-set up flank and Zlot bombs. And so forth.
And that's why you don't go pure Lurks. Hydra/ling support with those Lurks and you'll get the opponent running, if he's smart; if you're smart as well, you would set up a trap on where the opposing army would run back to and boom. GG.
Your argument is pretty biased, since you're not taking examples in more realistic scenarios. I don't really know where that Plague comment came from either. I can easily counter that single statement by saying that Spawn Broodling kills, even Siege Tanks, which is really a bit too powerful.
As I said already, outmacroing the enemy isn't necessary, since the Zerg has a very good field in harassment. Taking more expansions faster and taking down enemy ones constantly is the key to winning in SC in general, not just for Zerg.
The Zerg, however, are pretty bad until you get to Lair tech. You have two options in the beginning. Start pumping some lings and sunks quickly for anti-Zlot/rine rushes then get screwed in your pump later on, or get a quick second hatch and power eco while risking a rush. I only have a single build order down that creates a balance between the two extremes, which isn't good. But in all, the map plays the biggest part. The Zerg won't need to worry in a larger map, but in more compact maps the Zerg is at a disadvantage by this dilemma.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:11 pm
There, now there's something to talk about ninja
By fire and forget, I didn't really mean forget. I meant that you can wipe someone out extremely quickly if they weren't paying attention at that instant. A zerg swarm, unless it surrounds them, doesn't really do that. You can always run away from it to some degree, because it's not instant death as in the case of psi storm, reavers, or tanks.
I really enjoy spawn broodling, but pumping out queens isn't very practical. It takes a fairly long time to get enough energy, and in a large battle, it's a lot of effort trying to find queens with enough energy anyway.
About mobility, I do agree, but it doesn't take much to hinder your harassing; a few cannons, tanks, templar, corsairs... and suddenly you won't be able to do as much with it, unless you send decently sized forces.
I'm a Protoss player too, though I play Zerg just as often now (which isn't much anymore).
And yes, that post is biased, probably because I'm a randomly bitter person.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 pm
Actually, if you have one Hive and several Lairs, with about four Hatcheries per resource node, you can whip up required resources extremely fast, and a wall of Hatcheries all producing zerglings will easily discourage an opponent's rush, and then you will most likely have a decent rushing force. In Fastest maps, the higher-level Zerg players will produce five rows, each with three Hatcheries, behind the colony filled-to-the-brim pathway to their base, they can build up a force fairly quickly by double-clicking/CTRL-clicking a larva and then having all the selected larvae morph to Hydras and Ultras with a possible group of lings. I have yet to test, but I hypothesize that when you get about 10k minerals and gas, and a sizeable Ovie force, you can mass produce Ultras, Hydras, and Lings and send a pretty balanced rush to tear through your opponent's defenses, with Hydras covering Ultras and Lings from aerial defenses, the Lings preventing ground forces, such as Zealots and Firebats from surrounding your ultras, and your Ultras to assist in destroying siege tanks and firebat/rine-filled bunkers.
Used correctly, the Zerg are a force to be reckoned with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:07 am
I noticed that its hard to get to the full 200 units. You usually have like 50/100 or maybe its just me. xP
But maybe its because the units aren't costing 8 people things(Forgot what they're called) like battlecruisers are. Zerg isn't all that expensive. They don't have the powerful units that you are sure you want to head to. They have the few units that you mass, like the air combo of devourers and guardians or ultralisks or hydralisks. x.x I'm confusing myself while I'm saying this so before I ramble any further, I'll just click Submit like a good person.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:25 pm
Nah, BCs cost 6 supply, not 8. I think it was 8 in an older patch though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:31 am
DoomGaze Nah, BCs cost 6 supply, not 8. I think it was 8 in an older patch though. I rush them and I don't remember! xP Yeah, I think its 6 now that I think about it though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:41 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:46 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:35 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:10 pm
Really? I never EVER use anything bigger than an ultralisk. I noticed those, but since I never use BCs or Carriers I never noticed their cost. 3nodding
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
