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 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:35 am
So we have a choice to sin and a choice to follow God right?
We have free will.
BUT! If I went to heaven would I be happy forever? If so then I would have no free will.
So does it get removed at the gates or something?
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:05 am
Why does happiness automatically equate a lack of free will? When we get to heaven, all we will want to do is worship G-d. I mean, He is perfect and all that.
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:35 pm
Yeah, I don't understand what you're getting at. Why would you have to lose your free will to be happy forever? O.o How are you correlating that?
Are you trying to say that once we go to heaven we won't need it anymore? I suppose that's true then because you've gained everything you need so you really don't have any more decisions to make... lol...
Or are you trying to say that "no free will = ignorance = bliss"?
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:52 pm
who said we would be bound by Earthly standards once we are in heaven? I believe in Revelations it describe how it will be in heaven, where God will be With us and there will be no Sun and No night for God will be our everything.... In perfection how could their be imperfection? When God completely restores He completely restores.... Just as here on Earth we can choose to fallow God or to fallow the enemy... But really there comes appoint, where you realize that true freedom isn't about making your own choices but in fallowing the King of Kings and Lord of Lords who leads us on paths of Righteousness and shows us what real love, kindness, hope, peace, and joy are.... In truth there is infinite happiness....
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:01 pm
I should have been more clear.
I would be unhappy in heaven knowing there were fundamentally good people in hell. But if it's perfect, then I could not be unhappy. So God must force the feeling of happiness onto us. Thus, we lose our will to feel freely.
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:27 pm
People who choose to follow God do so freely (we hope confused ), and they live their life striving for the time when all they will be able to do is worship and praise Him (like they do here on earth, but so much better). Since Heaven is essentially that, you could say we still have free will, because we made the choice to get where we are and we're continuing to choose to do what we're doing. It's like you really like ice cream. One day, there will be a time when all you can do is eat ice cream (and I mean, you never get tired of ice cream). So, when that day comes, is your choice taken away because now you can eat all the ice cream you want? I don't know, maybe it is. Doesn't seem that way to me though. Maybe I just have a different way of looking at things.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:12 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly People who choose to follow God do so freely (we hope confused ), and they live their life striving for the time when all they will be able to do is worship and praise Him (like they do here on earth, but so much better). Since Heaven is essentially that, you could say we still have free will, because we made the choice to get where we are and we're continuing to choose to do what we're doing. It's like you really like ice cream. One day, there will be a time when all you can do is eat ice cream (and I mean, you never get tired of ice cream). So, when that day comes, is your choice taken away because now you can eat all the ice cream you want? I don't know, maybe it is. Doesn't seem that way to me though. Maybe I just have a different way of looking at things. Well what's the alternative of ice-cream? Tofu. Endless tofu. Between endless ice-cream and endless tofu, I have to choose ice-cream. So it's not really a choice.
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:35 pm
Why does there need to be an opposite? I think I'm missing your point. sweatdrop
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:06 am
Fushigi na Butterfly Why does there need to be an opposite? I think I'm missing your point. sweatdrop If you don't go to heaven, where do you go? Hell right?
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:46 pm
Right, but after that there's no other choices to make because you've already made your choices. Free will isn't necessary- so I guess in a way you do lose it, but it's not that it's taken away, it's just not utilized because there aren't any options to choose between.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:03 pm
So really I have only two choices, and when one is made that choice becomes fixed forever.
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:32 pm
Deo_Machina Well what's the alternative of ice-cream? Tofu. Endless tofu. Between endless ice-cream and endless tofu, I have to choose ice-cream. So it's not really a choice. No, it's a choice. That it's between a (perceivably) good choice and a (perceivably) bad choice is irrelevant. A choice is a choice.
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:36 pm
Deo_Machina I would be unhappy in heaven knowing there were fundamentally good people in hell. I'd guess that you'd come to the realization that 'good' is not the same as 'perfect', and only the perfect can be in G-d's presence. Quote: But if it's perfect, then I could not be unhappy. I doubt it. I mean, The Satan rebelled, didn't he? Quote: So God must force the feeling of happiness onto us. Thus, we lose our will to feel freely. Or that feeling comes naturally as a result of the fufilling relationship with our Creator. It's like eating ice cream on a hot day. You aren't forced to enjoy the cool feeling, but you do anyways.
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:55 am
Cometh The Inquisitor Deo_Machina I would be unhappy in heaven knowing there were fundamentally good people in hell. I'd guess that you'd come to the realization that 'good' is not the same as 'perfect', and only the perfect can be in G-d's presence. But you don't get perfect people. Quote: I doubt it. I mean, The Satan rebelled, didn't he? I'd assume that was God's plan. I mean, God needed someone to act as an example right? Quote: Or that feeling comes naturally as a result of the fufilling relationship with our Creator. It's like eating ice cream on a hot day. You aren't forced to enjoy the cool feeling, but you do anyways. Not everyone likes that feeling, I certainly don't like the idea. (I mean the idea of heaven, not the idea of ice-cream) Does that mean the only other option has to be hell?
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:58 am
Cometh The Inquisitor Deo_Machina Well what's the alternative of ice-cream? Tofu. Endless tofu. Between endless ice-cream and endless tofu, I have to choose ice-cream. So it's not really a choice. No, it's a choice. That it's between a (perceivably) good choice and a (perceivably) bad choice is irrelevant. A choice is a choice. The phrase "lesser of two evils" comes to mind. When someone asks you if you want to get punched or if you want to get shot, there isn't really an option I'd want to choose. But I would say punch just because I don't want the latter.
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