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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:33 pm
One of the many practises of the Evangelical Christians is there practise of religious indontrination to children. This process, best depicted in the movie "Jesus Camp" takes a malible young mind, and stifles it.
Do you support forcing religon onto children? If yes, why?
And just as importantly, if no, why?
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:23 am
I've seen that movie/documentary. The woman who ran that camp was crazy. I don't remember any specific examples, since it's been a while, but I remember just sitting there and thinking "wow..."
I was raised Christian, and went to church and was baptized and all that jazz, but the stuff this woman would spew was just astounding.
The kids themselves were pretty vocal, they had 9-12 year olds get in front of the rest of the camp and preaching. The things they were saying had to have been fed to them, I've never heard a 9 year old boy preach like that before.
The beliefs themselves are not bad, I'm always for having a good moral compass that you actually adhere to. But the fact that they're raised from birth in this environment, it simply cuts them off from seeing and considering other possibilities. It practically forces them to accept the views and beliefs of their parents/camp leader woman.
That's just not right, people should be able to come to their own conclusions without insanely biased people preaching to them relentlessly.
To quote one of the kids that was preaching to the others "At 5 I got saved, because I just wanted more out of life." It seems to me that at 5 years old you don't know enough about life to want more out of it...
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:55 am
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:54 am
Wow yeah. Children are an extremely touchy subject. It's difficult to decide what you need to put in their face and what you don't. Religion , imho, is one of the things you don't. Religion is far too complicated and mysterious to be figured out by a child. To even teach a child that he can understand religion at such an age is setting him up for disaster. You suffocate them, because they are so much less likely to seek out alternative lifestyles and beliefs that could be much more beneficial to them as an individual.
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:20 pm
Note I never said I had a problem with teaching children to follow a religion. I specifically said I have a problem when it is forced on them, when all other paths of enquiry are squelched to make them into perfect little evangalests.
And Ceyx, you're right. The little nine year old boy preaching is the second most terifying thing about that film. The worst thing was the "God Warrior" concept they were pushing. With the dance at the start, and the preaching that they are bad because they wouldn't die for their religion is exactly what i am talking about
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:59 pm
I was wondering when this would topic would be posted needless_fury xd Anyway, I personally have no religion but the fact that Evangelists*** (you misspelled it) are, to put it bluntly, forcing children into their religion is horrifying. This is one reason I agree with whichever Western (if you will) religion that did not baptize children period. Only adults were accepted into the church so that they could have a choice. Children are our future, they should not be subjected to the "die for God" propaganda that the Evangelist put out. Somehow this reminds me of Hitler. But right now, I'm so addle-brained I cannot word that comparison decently sad .
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:50 pm
The group you are thinking of is called the anabaptists
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:58 pm
I don't believe you can force anything on anyone. Teaching your child the religion that you practice is something that I feel is necessary. Forbidding them from seeking out alternatives is when the stifling begins. I feel that they have to have some place to start.
If someone doesn't want to accept something then you can't make them, no matter how many drills or sermons you put them through. They'll just go through the motions until they can break away.
That's how I feel about it.
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:46 am
I hope you are not basing your entire opinion off of that movie. Evangelical is strongly and almost exclusively pertaining to Protestants. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and I have never seen religion forced on a child. My parents are only loosely religious and if I wanted to go to church as a child; it was something I had to do for myself. The type of recruitment you are talking about exceeds conservative Christianity and is blatantly extremist. Please remember that very few of us are going to throw our religion in your face and try to convert you.
My point is that most Christian sects do not force religion on children, but when they do; it is a horrible crime and infraction against their rights as thinking, intelligent human beings.
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:14 am
I think- the continued existence of religion depends on teaching children.
I find it difficult to believe that an adult, having been taught virtues and
good nature without religion would be able to believe in such stories
as the bible asks us to believe when introduced in adulthood.
Scientifically, most of the bible is very difficult to believe.
Perhaps this method would introduce a new type of religious person-
more understanding and acceptance of fellow man, and the basic
need for civil behavior.
Or not.
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:26 am
MoDeStTrUtH I hope you are not basing your entire opinion off of that movie. Evangelical is strongly and almost exclusively pertaining to Protestants. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and I have never seen religion forced on a child. My parents are only loosely religious and if I wanted to go to church as a child; it was something I had to do for myself. The type of recruitment you are talking about exceeds conservative Christianity and is blatantly extremist. Please remember that very few of us are going to throw our religion in your face and try to convert you. My point is that most Christian sects do not force religion on children, but when they do; it is a horrible crime and infraction against their rights as thinking, intelligent human beings. I never said it was widespread. Your point about how it is a horrible crime is EXACTLY what i'm saying; it is. My only exposure is not through this film. I have had numerious friends who are evangelical christians, and they all were raised in similar fashions, which to me are deplorible. That's why i started this thread-- because it IS a crime. Or at least, it should be
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:27 am
Sorry for the double post- this is seperate from my other and I didnt want them to run together.
I think its a very fine line, teaching our children our own beliefs and forcing it on them.
First we have to define forcing. Does that mean a strong or strict religious
up bringing? Or to teach against a childs will? Or is it just a stream lined
view point- with only parental infomation and nothing else contridictory?
I think for a person of strong or steady faith- it would be absurd to teach
thier own child something that was contridicting to thier own feelings.
An alternative example would be if you think theft is wrong, but allow your children to explore theft in a nurturing environment to see what answers they find for themselves. By teaching children in families of faith thier own belief systems, its protecting them against hell, or the jail cell in my prior example.
My own family is a bit different. I am a solid athiest. However, my children
must find whats right for their own hearts. This has given them a nurturing environment to explore thier own spirituality. I am clear on my ideas with
them- its not fair to lie or mislead. But I also tell them that not everyone
has the same ideas as me, and thats ok. Each person has to find what will
keep them comforitable and help them lead happy lives.
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:58 pm
Growing up, I attended an Evangelical church. I don't remember it being a terrible place, though. The pastor, well, he was just a horrible person anyway, it wasn't the faith that made him a golddigger. Religious indoctrination smacks of brainwashing, simple as that. When you get down to the bare bones of it, all it is is mind control. Its disgusting that this form of it is not only accepted by these people, but actively enforced. Silver Gargoyle I think its a very fine line, teaching our children our own beliefs and forcing it on them... I think for a person of strong or steady faith- it would be absurd to teach thier own child something that was contridicting to thier own feelings. Agreed. And this really is a point of contention in my house, as my husband is an atheist and I had a very religious upbringing. We discuss this a lot, and I do mean a lot, and while we agree on lots of points, he gets so angry when he thinks about a child of his possibly converting to Christianity. Something about America's brand of religious extremism has tainted his whole outlook on faith.
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:06 pm
I was brought up almost religionless. Both my parents have their beliefs, they dont share them with us much. I was always encouraged to explore religion.
But just because I was brought up religionless, i was not brought up moraless, we had stucture. We absorbed some notions of Karma, compassion and generosity. Now I'm still religionless, not athiest. Is that agnostic. Lol I like to say im a hedonist.
I think its unfair to force it on a child, they are being cheated of finding god/or whatever for themselves. If your god is real, he wouldnt need you to shove him down anyones throat. He might need a bit of help, but if it doesnt stick the first time...
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:54 pm
In my point of view, children shouldn't be forced into religion, the kids who were preaching, well, scared me. People should have their own point of views, but I think they should also know the bible. I am all for people learning about the bible, but when someone actually forces the child to learn all this is just wrong.
But, I don't have much to say about religion, since I never went to church and I only read a children's bible sweatdrop but maybe because of this, I have my own point of view of how things work. All I am saying is this, children should have their own choice about how far into the bible, if they want to have their own views away from the bible is fine, if they want to be like those kids that you mention in the movie, well its their own choice, but I don't think thats gonna happend.
Children are our future, but if they are forced into seeing another's point of view, well there shall be just chaos.
Anyway, I was going to be off topic, I think I did explain the main questions. Just in case I didn't clarify enough ((Last debate I did went horrible cause I didn't clarify, I don't want this to happend again))
Religion is alright, but forcing it to others (even adults) is wrong, for everyone should have their own views away or the bible. Children, in my opinion, should learn about religion, but not so much that they can only see the bible's views and go "die for God"
If I didn't clarify enough then tell me
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