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 Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:03 am
Something that's been plaguing my mind lately.
Do you have to be an atheist to be a LaVeyan Satanist? Given all my current Satanic readings (TSB, TSR, TSW, SS! and half of TDN as well as some online stuff), I've yet to find anything to support this.
Why is this plaguing my mind, exactly? Because I just can't throw off the idea that every deity is false.
I, personally, see deities as typically legendary mortals who managed to carve their name in myth and then be classified as gods. There may even be a race of pan-dimensional beings that manifest in our dimension as they do. There are people I trust with their own UPG and I can't bring myself to discredit it.
Yes, I am an atheist in the conventional sense, but a theist if I bend the definition of deity to whatever I find convenient for the god in question.
In my opinion, the LaVeyan Satanist is free to believe in the existence of whichever gods he wants, as long as he does not put them above himself. Just like a LaVeyan Satanist is free to believe in anything else, as long has his beliefs do not make his survival harder or his life or worse quality.
But hey ho.
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:03 am
The way I see it, you are an atheist.
I'd recommend re-reading TSB, "Wanted: God, Dead or Alive" for more on this. If my memory serves me correctly, we do acknowledge that god is what we deem it to be, but at the same time we are aware that historically, externalized gods have simply been projected egos. Hence, Satanists internalize their gods, invalidating them as deities and recognizing them only as their own ego.
Rewriting that bit of the philosophy is quite a drastic override.
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:31 am
PirateEire The way I see it, you are an atheist. Same. However I like to annoy people by twisting definitions. Quote: I'd recommend re-reading TSB, "Wanted: God, Dead or Alive" for more on this. Quote: If my memory serves me correctly, we do acknowledge that god is what we deem it to be, but at the same time we are aware that historically, externalized gods have simply been projected egos. Well, it depends really. I personally doubt gods are entirely projected egos. Rather the legendary mortals who have then been empowered by projected egos. Quote: Hence, Satanists internalize their gods, invalidating them as deities and recognizing them only as their own ego. What about a Deist god? Quote: Rewriting that bit of the philosophy is quite a drastic override. I've gotta re-read it. And by that, I mean re-re-read it.
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:51 am
[Subject to Psychosis] Quote: If my memory serves me correctly, we do acknowledge that god is what we deem it to be, but at the same time we are aware that historically, externalized gods have simply been projected egos. Well, it depends really. I personally doubt gods are entirely projected egos. Rather the legendary mortals who have then been empowered by projected egos. Though said mortals are dead and only their ego remains... Unless you've got some other idea as to what happens after death. Though, according to LaVey's philosophy, an ego is just that: an ego; and "supernatural" things are simply carnal. Hence, any kind of conscious existence beyond that of a lasting ego... is not exactly part of LaVey's philosophy. Bleh, sorry, having issues wording things right here. I'm running on 2 hours sleep. [Subject to Psychosis] Quote: Hence, Satanists internalize their gods, invalidating them as deities and recognizing them only as their own ego. What about a Deist god? Gotta be honest. I'm not familiar with the concept of a deist god.
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:25 am
PirateEire [Subject to Psychosis] Quote: If my memory serves me correctly, we do acknowledge that god is what we deem it to be, but at the same time we are aware that historically, externalized gods have simply been projected egos. Well, it depends really. I personally doubt gods are entirely projected egos. Rather the legendary mortals who have then been empowered by projected egos. Though said mortals are dead and only their ego remains... Unless you've got some other idea as to what happens after death. Though, according to LaVey's philosophy, an ego is just that: an ego; and "supernatural" things are simply carnal. Hence, any kind of conscious existence beyond that of a lasting ego... is not exactly part of LaVey's philosophy. Bleh, sorry, having issues wording things right here. I'm running on 2 hours sleep. I go with the conclusion of "I have no proof of anything after this life, thus stick with what I know. However, application of the Razor would imply that this is the only life, thus enjoy it.". I refuse to outright deny any afterlife under the grounds I abhor being shamefully wrong. But I don't believe in one. Basically, I am to afterlife as soft atheists are to deities. If that helps matters. Quote: [Subject to Psychosis] Quote: Hence, Satanists internalize their gods, invalidating them as deities and recognizing them only as their own ego. What about a Deist god? Gotta be honest. I'm not familiar with the concept of a deist god. Last I checked, just a god-like entity. No need for worship, fear or even interaction. Just "There is some godlike force. It created junk. It went away. LET'S GO PLAY COMPUTER GAMES!".
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:31 pm
From my understanding, yes. You pretty much have to be an athiest to be a LaVeyan Satanist. Unless, by dieties, you mean certan elemental forms in your mind that ultimatly help you get through your every-day life...then no. Way too complicated for me, but if it works, it works.
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:05 pm
+J a c k+ From my understanding, yes. You pretty much have to be an athiest to be a LaVeyan Satanist. Unless, by dieties, you mean certan elemental forms in your mind that ultimatly help you get through your every-day life...then no. Way too complicated for me, but if it works, it works. Well, if you think about it, isn't the belief in an external deity a tool to help you get through the day? Believing that someone, somewhere knows whats going on, even when you feel like your life is nothing but a downward spiral? Personally, I don't know whether I believe in a god, but I'd like to think that humans aren't as good as it gets in the universe. That would just be depressing.
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:23 pm
Dictionary.com a·the·ist /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ey-thee-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. This would fit along with LaVey's principals, as far as I know. We believe in Gods not as supreme beings but as a "Projected Ego,"
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:30 pm
Evil Kween +J a c k+ From my understanding, yes. You pretty much have to be an athiest to be a LaVeyan Satanist. Unless, by dieties, you mean certan elemental forms in your mind that ultimatly help you get through your every-day life...then no. Way too complicated for me, but if it works, it works. Well, if you think about it, isn't the belief in an external deity a tool to help you get through the day? Believing that someone, somewhere knows whats going on, even when you feel like your life is nothing but a downward spiral? Personally, I don't know whether I believe in a god, but I'd like to think that humans aren't as good as it gets in the universe. That would just be depressing. I honestly don't think humans are as good as it gets in the universe. But I do believe we are currently as "Good as it gets" on earth simply for the fact that we are the only animal with complete and utter control over the fate of it... we could very well blow ourselves to pieces in mere days... sad And as for the comfort of knowing someone somewhere knows everything that's happening... I may be taking this the wrong way but it reminds me of the comfort people get from knowing that "Jesus loves them" even when everyone else thinks they're an arse. Care to elaborate on what you said? I'd hate to be taking it the wrong way... like I do many times over -.-
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:10 pm
The Rune Rockah Evil Kween +J a c k+ From my understanding, yes. You pretty much have to be an athiest to be a LaVeyan Satanist. Unless, by dieties, you mean certan elemental forms in your mind that ultimatly help you get through your every-day life...then no. Way too complicated for me, but if it works, it works. Well, if you think about it, isn't the belief in an external deity a tool to help you get through the day? Believing that someone, somewhere knows whats going on, even when you feel like your life is nothing but a downward spiral? Personally, I don't know whether I believe in a god, but I'd like to think that humans aren't as good as it gets in the universe. That would just be depressing. I honestly don't think humans are as good as it gets in the universe. But I do believe we are currently as "Good as it gets" on earth simply for the fact that we are the only animal with complete and utter control over the fate of it... we could very well blow ourselves to pieces in mere days... sad And as for the comfort of knowing someone somewhere knows everything that's happening... I may be taking this the wrong way but it reminds me of the comfort people get from knowing that "Jesus loves them" even when everyone else thinks they're an arse. Care to elaborate on what you said? I'd hate to be taking it the wrong way... like I do many times over -.- I didn't say "everything." I really meant that someone has a better grasp on the universe than we do. And I actually know people of the "Jesus loves me" type. That wasn't what I was thinking of at all xd
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:22 am
Evil Kween +J a c k+ From my understanding, yes. You pretty much have to be an athiest to be a LaVeyan Satanist. Unless, by dieties, you mean certan elemental forms in your mind that ultimatly help you get through your every-day life...then no. Way too complicated for me, but if it works, it works. Well, if you think about it, isn't the belief in an external deity a tool to help you get through the day? Believing that someone, somewhere knows whats going on, even when you feel like your life is nothing but a downward spiral? That is very true. It may get you through the day, but believing in an external diety automatically qualifies you as a non-athiest, reguardless of whether or not it helps you deal with everyday life.
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:57 am
[Subject to Psychosis] Quote: [Subject to Psychosis] Quote: Hence, Satanists internalize their gods, invalidating them as deities and recognizing them only as their own ego. What about a Deist god? Gotta be honest. I'm not familiar with the concept of a deist god. Last I checked, just a god-like entity. No need for worship, fear or even interaction. Just "There is some godlike force. It created junk. It went away. LET'S GO PLAY COMPUTER GAMES!". Ah, well in that case, LaVeyan Satanists aren't that either. Same chapter, TSB. We ackbowledge that man has always created his own "gods," not the other way around. Hence, there never were actual "gods," and there still are not. That is, if I am understanding you correctly... I mean, the "force" of nature is really nothing godlike at all. . . Bah, I am tired.
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:57 pm
PirateEire [Subject to Psychosis] Quote: [Subject to Psychosis] Quote: Hence, Satanists internalize their gods, invalidating them as deities and recognizing them only as their own ego. What about a Deist god? Gotta be honest. I'm not familiar with the concept of a deist god. Last I checked, just a god-like entity. No need for worship, fear or even interaction. Just "There is some godlike force. It created junk. It went away. LET'S GO PLAY COMPUTER GAMES!". Ah, well in that case, LaVeyan Satanists aren't that either. Same chapter, TSB. We ackbowledge that man has always created his own "gods," not the other way around. Hence, there never were actual "gods," and there still are not. That is, if I am understanding you correctly... I mean, the "force" of nature is really nothing godlike at all. . . Bah, I am tired. That's why I feel "deity" needs to be further refined and what classifies you as a "LaVeyan Atheist". Do you believe in higher powers that must be worshipped as nothing more than the imaginations of one or more? Then you're a LaVeyan Atheist. Do you believe that there is some force of nature that is personified which created anything but is pretty much dead beyond that? Yeah, I have no idea of that definition. Over thinking = Silly.
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:18 pm
does Chuck Norris count?
me personally, i revere about 5 or 6 real people as gods-
George RR Martin
Benjamin Franklin
Chiyo Chan Mihama
Carlos Mencia
Hideaki Anno
Hayao Miyazaki
Tamora Pierce
& 1 or 2 others i can't remember.
i revere them as gods, because i owe to them my existance as me- i wouldn't be who i am without their influences on my life.
i'd also include the bands Rammstein, Dimmu Borgir, & Children of Bodom.... possibly Old Mans Child....
that probably just makes me a stupid groupie, or something like that.
ah well...
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 2:36 pm
Khandnalie does Chuck Norris count? me personally, i revere about 5 or 6 real people as gods- George RR Martin Benjamin Franklin Chiyo Chan Mihama Carlos Mencia Hideaki Anno Hayao Miyazaki Tamora Pierce& 1 or 2 others i can't remember. i revere them as gods, because i owe to them my existance as me- i wouldn't be who i am without their influences on my life. i'd also include the bands Rammstein, Dimmu Borgir, & Children of Bodom.... possibly Old Mans Child.... that probably just makes me a stupid groupie, or something like that. ah well... She's a great author! smile One of my favorites... But that is a good point... does honoring other people as the creative forces that shaped you fall outside of LaVeyan ideology, or is that being realistic?
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