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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:43 pm
I thought it might be fun to discuss some things like teories on how time travel could work, how black holes might exist, and other fun aspects of theoretical physics. Personally, I like Neal Asher's take on time travel. In his book Cowl, it elaborates on it pretty well. Vorpal energy, as it's called, is what allow for time travel within a certain radius of earth and its life. The idea is that it takes a certain amount of energy to travel linearly back in time. Now, if you change something, this creates an alternate line that deviates from the main time line. This shoves you down a probablity slope, how far depending on just how much to mess with the time flow, like bringing something extinct in one time to another that it shouldn't be in. Of course, if you do something stupid, like creating the paradox of mudering your own father before conception, you'd be shoved so far down the probablity slope that you wouldn't be able to get back to the main line. Of course, being able to get ot the main line form an alternate line means that it would be possible to travel horizontally in time.
Anyways, just some interesting thoughts I had.
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:34 am
I haven't yet found any sensible theories that explain backwards time travel. The general consensus in the physics world is that, if time travel is possible, one can only move forward.
Also, you briefly mentioned an alternate universe being formed because of a change in events. To me, it seems there would be two possible scenarios:
1) The changes made by said time travel had already happened in the normal universe. For example: If you traveled backwards in time when you were 20 and killed hitler, your 10 year old self (before you time traveled) would still be living in a universe in which your 20 year old self had killed hitler 65 years ago.
2) Everything that can possibly happen has happened, and there is a unique universe for each subtle change. This would mean that: There is a universe where Hitler won WW2, as well as a universe for John Kerry winning the presidency.
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:36 pm
The Smoker I haven't yet found any sensible theories that explain backwards time travel. The general consensus in the physics world is that, if time travel is possible, one can only move forward.
Also, you briefly mentioned an alternate universe being formed because of a change in events. To me, it seems there would be two possible scenarios:
1) The changes made by said time travel had already happened in the normal universe. For example: If you traveled backwards in time when you were 20 and killed hitler, your 10 year old self (before you time traveled) would still be living in a universe in which your 20 year old self had killed hitler 65 years ago.
2) Everything that can possibly happen has happened, and there is a unique universe for each subtle change. This would mean that: There is a universe where Hitler won WW2, as well as a universe for John Kerry winning the presidency. One could look at it that way, but I like to think of it as creating that alternate time line, which once you go away from it, unless you have the secific directions to go to that or another that has been created, you stay along the main line, and try to not alternate it, lest you create a new pobability slope, and if you were to create as large of a change as Hitler winning WWII, you'd go so far down the probablity slope that you wouldn't be able to get back.
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:57 am
The Smoker 2) Everything that can possibly happen has happened, and there is a unique universe for each subtle change. This would mean that: There is a universe where Hitler won WW2, as well as a universe for John Kerry winning the presidency.
Are you sure this theory works with every subtle change? For example, if I had eaten a bagel for breakfast this morning, rather than eating oatmeal, that would be something different, but not likely to change the direction that the reality I live in, as a whole, is going in. Unless you have an incredibly overactive imagination.
I'm just pointing this out because it seems to me that only really big changes that could affect the course of reality would be included. In the long run, my choice of breakfast food has no effect.
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:23 pm
I think everything you do (big or small) affects the world around you. For every action there is a reaction. It may not seem like much but you change the whole course of history by changing one detail. Like If Hitler had gotten accpeted into art then there would be no Holocaust or if John Kerry was president we would be out of Iraq now. But there are other consequences that we can't forsee and who says we want to know them. Then there is the paradox that occurs with them like you go back in time and kill Hilter at 20 and your 10 year old lives those years and logically would not have to go kill Hilter because he dead and there is need to do or even know that he need to. So he doesn't creating a beautiful mind boggling paradox.
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:41 pm
aiden.the.panda I think everything you do (big or small) affects the world around you. For every action there is a reaction. It may not seem like much but you change the whole course of history by changing one detail. Like If Hitler had gotten accpeted into art then there would be no Holocaust or if John Kerry was president we would be out of Iraq now. But there are other consequences that we can't forsee and who says we want to know them. Then there is the paradox that occurs with them like you go back in time and kill Hilter at 20 and your 10 year old lives those years and logically would not have to go kill Hilter because he dead and there is need to do or even know that he need to. So he doesn't creating a beautiful mind boggling paradox. Thus, the idea that you would have created an alternate timeline, becaus you deviated so far from the main line, with that paradox, that you would never be able to create enough energy to get back up the probability slope, so you'd have to live your life linearly in that time period.
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:45 pm
The Smoker I haven't yet found any sensible theories that explain backwards time travel. The general consensus in the physics world is that, if time travel is possible, one can only move forward. What do you mean "if" it were possible? We're all time travelers. I'm traveling through time right now. Time travel is possible, but as you say it's only being done forward (that we know of). Personally, I quite liked the theory from Timeline by Michael Crighton. It was essentially like your second theory - there is a separate universe for every possible outcome of an event (not major events, mind you. Just any change at all). So people didn't really travel through time. They just slid into a universe where it is 1986, for example. They used computers to "scan" the new universe to try to find one that was as similar to ours as possible.
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:02 pm
I doubt there is any real way you can go back in time and undo what's been done. There just doesn't seem like any possible way to return to past events. Time only moves in one direction, but it also doesn't seem possible to jump forward in time either.
Personally, I don't think time is an illusion. It's always moving at the same pace, forward, and affects absolutily everything in the universe.
Theories such as wormholes or black holes might pierce the fabric of space and allow you to move to different areas of space at incredible speed, but never move through time.
But I still can't help loving those movies where someone meets their past and future self or something. It is an interesting concept.
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:09 pm
[ Pixel ] It's always moving at the same pace No it isn't. If you The faster you go, the slower time gets.
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:16 pm
[ Pixel ] I doubt there is any real way you can go back in time and undo what's been done. There just doesn't seem like any possible way to return to past events. Time only moves in one direction, but it also doesn't seem possible to jump forward in time either. Personally, I don't think time is an illusion. It's always moving at the same pace, forward, and affects absolutily everything in the universe. Theories such as wormholes or black holes might pierce the fabric of space and allow you to move to different areas of space at incredible speed, but never move through time. But I still can't help loving those movies where someone meets their past and future self or something. It is an interesting concept. Ha. Creating a paradox like meeting yourself would shove you so far down the probability slope you'd never be able to time travel, once you actually engage the meeting.
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:00 pm
torrinne The Smoker 2) Everything that can possibly happen has happened, and there is a unique universe for each subtle change. This would mean that: There is a universe where Hitler won WW2, as well as a universe for John Kerry winning the presidency.
Are you sure this theory works with every subtle change? For example, if I had eaten a bagel for breakfast this morning, rather than eating oatmeal, that would be something different, but not likely to change the direction that the reality I live in, as a whole, is going in. Unless you have an incredibly overactive imagination.
I'm just pointing this out because it seems to me that only really big changes that could affect the course of reality would be included. In the long run, my choice of breakfast food has no effect.
The human species is only one of many species. Even if it does not have any affect that determines the course of human history, or anything "dramatic" one would have to assume that if there is an alternate universe or whatever for these 'large' changes (which really don't nessicarily affect much in the grand scheme of things) then there would be for all small differences. It actually makes more sense, if you really think about it. Why would science change significantly to only work with how humans percieve events?
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Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:19 am
Forget moving backwards, I'd prefer moving sideways into the alternates, no threat of paradox and if you play your cards right you can supplement your own time line's resources by taking it from other time lines. (like a time line where humans never spread across the earth, in which you could tap the oil, water, and grain.)
I think this concept is fully explained in the crosstime books by Harry Turtledove.
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Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:26 pm
ManateeMan Forget moving backwards, I'd prefer moving sideways into the alternates, no threat of paradox and if you play your cards right you can supplement your own time line's resources by taking it from other time lines. (like a time line where humans never spread across the earth, in which you could tap the oil, water, and grain.) I think this concept is fully explained in the crosstime books by Harry Turtledove. Not really, if you ask my thoughts. That would be a huge amount of energy you would need to be able to make a jump that far downslope, nevermind getting back up it. In other words, you can change the immediate past by going back and doing what one must before you go too far downslope, the event of it being successful being called a short circuit. and everyone involved in the event would have the memory of both the original happenings and the changed ones.
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:56 pm
What are there now, 11 different dimensions, according to String Theory? That which you have never experienced, you can not comprehend. Humans can not comprehend any real way to move backwards in time, simply because we haven't found a way yet.
Remember, dimension 1; up and down; can be moved back and forth it.
Dimension 2; left and right; can be moved back and forth in.
Dimension 3; forward and backward; can be moved back and forth in.
Dimension 4; time; so far, we only think we can move forward in it, although there have been some interesting cases of time travelers claiming to have came from the future. They do things like make bank in the stock market, are promptly investigated by the government, are found to have no record of ever existing before that, and then disappear amongst ridicule, and are never heard from again.
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:16 pm
On the idea of different realities. I dont understand how they could exist. The theory has as much proof as god does. And for time travel, this is my prefered website. It explains that we may be able to travle back in time. But it would be impossible to change the course of the future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle
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