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Nuh-uh, Vergil IS in DMC 4, here, let me show you. Goto Page: 1 2 3 [>] [»|]

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Love Me Some Liz

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:41 pm


Yes, he is! And I can prove it. Take a look at this article taken from Game Informer. If you can't read the little excerpt at the bottom left, it says:


With the presence of Dante and newcomer Nero, one must also wonder about the whereabouts of the other white-haired hero/villain, Vergil. Devil May Cry 3 and its special edition cemented Dante's brother as an integral part of the series, and though he appeared to die (as Nelo Angelo) in the first game, he apparently still has a place in DMC 4. "We're not ready to say what role Vergil himself plays in the story," Kobayashi tells us. "But the existence of Vergil as a character is something very important to the story of the games. That is something that I don't think is going to end."


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So, what can I say except for... YAY. 4laugh

Here's some more Vergil.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm


er not to be a d**k about it but that was just game informers take on it and yes hes part of the story but there is no proof other than nero's d.t. that a full pledge vergil himself is in it

Chaos Hellbound

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Love Me Some Liz

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:58 am


chaos hellbound
er not to be a d**k about it but that was just game informers take on it and yes hes part of the story but there is no proof other than nero's d.t. that a full pledge vergil himself is in it
Yes, but Nero's Devil Bringer and having Vergil related to it is just a theory. He's much more important than an arm. The article was stating clearly that he has an important role to the story, and frankly, Nero's Devil Bringer doesn't seem to be the center of DMC 4. It's just a meer weapon. And it wasn't just Game Informer's take on it. Kobayashi tells us that he's in the game, but his role is a secret for now. Perhaps they'd like to surprise us. It must be big.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:11 am


Love Me Some Liz
chaos hellbound
er not to be a d**k about it but that was just game informers take on it and yes hes part of the story but there is no proof other than nero's d.t. that a full pledge vergil himself is in it
Yes, but Nero's Devil Bringer and having Vergil related to it is just a theory. He's much more important than an arm. The article was stating clearly that he has an important role to the story, and frankly, Nero's Devil Bringer doesn't seem to be the center of DMC 4. It's just a meer weapon. And it wasn't just Game Informer's take on it. Kobayashi tells us that he's in the game, but his role is a secret for now. Perhaps they'd like to surprise us. It must be big.
Kobayashi's also said he won't appear in the game. The arm's gotta be a big part considering the order of the sword lets Nero do whatever he wants, use guns(something no other member uses because they find it dishonorable, much like Vergil), customize the order's sword. Also, there have been pictures of Nero with an aura behind him, and aura extend a long, skinny, curved sword with some sort demonic armor. I doubt Vergil's going to have much of a physical form in DMC4, but the Devil Bringer? It's no theory.
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And that's Vergil. The sword, the sheath with in the arm, the armor. Much like Eusis has said in the Nero D.T. topic, it's pretty unmistakable.

LilaTheMoo
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TheFallenAngel-X

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:01 pm


Love Me Some Liz
chaos hellbound
er not to be a d**k about it but that was just game informers take on it and yes hes part of the story but there is no proof other than nero's d.t. that a full pledge vergil himself is in it
Yes, but Nero's Devil Bringer and having Vergil related to it is just a theory. He's much more important than an arm. The article was stating clearly that he has an important role to the story, and frankly, Nero's Devil Bringer doesn't seem to be the center of DMC 4. It's just a meer weapon. And it wasn't just Game Informer's take on it. Kobayashi tells us that he's in the game, but his role is a secret for now. Perhaps they'd like to surprise us. It must be big.

...you know veras' post pretty much summed it up, but did you ever think that "the secret role" you speak of is the ARM of Nero?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:25 pm


Veras Gunn
Love Me Some Liz
chaos hellbound
er not to be a d**k about it but that was just game informers take on it and yes hes part of the story but there is no proof other than nero's d.t. that a full pledge vergil himself is in it
Yes, but Nero's Devil Bringer and having Vergil related to it is just a theory. He's much more important than an arm. The article was stating clearly that he has an important role to the story, and frankly, Nero's Devil Bringer doesn't seem to be the center of DMC 4. It's just a meer weapon. And it wasn't just Game Informer's take on it. Kobayashi tells us that he's in the game, but his role is a secret for now. Perhaps they'd like to surprise us. It must be big.
Kobayashi's also said he won't appear in the game. The arm's gotta be a big part considering the order of the sword lets Nero do whatever he wants, use guns(something no other member uses because they find it dishonorable, much like Vergil), customize the order's sword. Also, there have been pictures of Nero with an aura behind him, and aura extend a long, skinny, curved sword with some sort demonic armor. I doubt Vergil's going to have much of a physical form in DMC4, but the Devil Bringer? It's no theory.
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And that's Vergil. The sword, the sheath with in the arm, the armor. Much like Eusis has said in the Nero D.T. topic, it's pretty unmistakable.

Yes, Nero's Devil Bringer is not a theory, but the idea that Vergil's spirit is possessing his arm is a theory. I don't believe this is true because it does not give Vergil an important role to the entire story, which Kobayashi himself had said he would have in DMC 4. Nero's arm may just be a new weapon that doesn't require him to be a demon to go into devil trigger. Who knows? I mean, we don't know much about Nero's origin as of yet. Perhaps Vergil is using Nero and through his arm he can come back into the human world. Again, this is also a theory. We won't know the facts until the full game is released.

Your part about the mystical demonic aura that surrounds Nero is Vergil, I feel a bit skeptical about that. It doesn't look remotely like Vergil. His sword was not curved- are katanas curved? Eusis claimed it was the yamato, but at a bad angle, there is no proof that clearly shows the identical appearance of this demon's sword and Vergil's yamato. For the most part, Nero's Devil Bringer could be summoning any demon, not necessarily Vergil. Because Vergil's motive was to gain power from the Force Edge, this doesn't make him unique from the rest of the demon population. Plus, this aura's armor is incredibly different from his devil trigger and Nelo Angelo's armor. Eusis said it could be a hybrid, but I don't see it. I don't recall him with a spikey goatee. It can be pretty mistakable... and debatable.

Love Me Some Liz


Chaos Hellbound

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:15 pm


Love Me Some Liz
Veras Gunn
Love Me Some Liz
chaos hellbound
er not to be a d**k about it but that was just game informers take on it and yes hes part of the story but there is no proof other than nero's d.t. that a full pledge vergil himself is in it
Yes, but Nero's Devil Bringer and having Vergil related to it is just a theory. He's much more important than an arm. The article was stating clearly that he has an important role to the story, and frankly, Nero's Devil Bringer doesn't seem to be the center of DMC 4. It's just a meer weapon. And it wasn't just Game Informer's take on it. Kobayashi tells us that he's in the game, but his role is a secret for now. Perhaps they'd like to surprise us. It must be big.
Kobayashi's also said he won't appear in the game. The arm's gotta be a big part considering the order of the sword lets Nero do whatever he wants, use guns(something no other member uses because they find it dishonorable, much like Vergil), customize the order's sword. Also, there have been pictures of Nero with an aura behind him, and aura extend a long, skinny, curved sword with some sort demonic armor. I doubt Vergil's going to have much of a physical form in DMC4, but the Devil Bringer? It's no theory.
User Image
And that's Vergil. The sword, the sheath with in the arm, the armor. Much like Eusis has said in the Nero D.T. topic, it's pretty unmistakable.

Yes, Nero's Devil Bringer is not a theory, but the idea that Vergil's spirit is possessing his arm is a theory. I don't believe this is true because it does not give Vergil an important role to the entire story, which Kobayashi himself had said he would have in DMC 4. Nero's arm may just be a new weapon that doesn't require him to be a demon to go into devil trigger. Who knows? I mean, we don't know much about Nero's origin as of yet. Perhaps Vergil is using Nero and through his arm he can come back into the human world. Again, this is also a theory. We won't know the facts until the full game is released.

Your part about the mystical demonic aura that surrounds Nero is Vergil, I feel a bit skeptical about that. It doesn't look remotely like Vergil. His sword was not curved- are katanas curved? Eusis claimed it was the yamato, but at a bad angle, there is no proof that clearly shows the identical appearance of this demon's sword and Vergil's yamato. For the most part, Nero's Devil Bringer could be summoning any demon, not necessarily Vergil. Because Vergil's motive was to gain power from the Force Edge, this doesn't make him unique from the rest of the demon population. Plus, this aura's armor is incredibly different from his devil trigger and Nelo Angelo's armor. Eusis said it could be a hybrid, but I don't see it. I don't recall him with a spikey goatee. It can be pretty mistakable... and debatable.




dude the pic shows almost a replica of all vergils and his form except gilver andyeah there is no mistaking the yaato is in the game it has the EXACT same handle and nahdgard of the yamato
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:33 pm


I like the Vergil action figure.
heart

Ell-na


Love Me Some Liz

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:50 pm


TheFallenAngel-X
Love Me Some Liz
chaos hellbound
er not to be a d**k about it but that was just game informers take on it and yes hes part of the story but there is no proof other than nero's d.t. that a full pledge vergil himself is in it
Yes, but Nero's Devil Bringer and having Vergil related to it is just a theory. He's much more important than an arm. The article was stating clearly that he has an important role to the story, and frankly, Nero's Devil Bringer doesn't seem to be the center of DMC 4. It's just a meer weapon. And it wasn't just Game Informer's take on it. Kobayashi tells us that he's in the game, but his role is a secret for now. Perhaps they'd like to surprise us. It must be big.

...you know veras' post pretty much summed it up, but did you ever think that "the secret role" you speak of is the ARM of Nero?
Yes, I did think about it, but I won't accept that conclusion because it's not an important role for Vergil. He's a character with a lot of potential and using him as a new weapon for DMC 4 is almost shameful.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:14 pm


Hmm, Liz does have some point.
Assuming Vergil does have a prominent role in DMC 4, I find it very likely that all of the above is true. My theory is that the arm isn't Vergil, but rather just some kind of demonic manifestation of some sort that absorbs energy from demonic souls.
However, in the preview, there was a scene where Nero was in a sort of catylact coma state, and Dante cried out to Nero to wake up, which thus awakened Nero's 'Devil Trigger.'
My theory is, Dante gives Nero a portion of his own power to awaken him, bringing him into the Sparta bloodline, and thus giving his 'Devil trigger' the family resemblance.

And no, katanas are not curved. Thats what makes them unique, they're the only japanese swords that are straight-edged. All others are curved.

Baulder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:25 pm


Katana's are always curved, it's not a katana if it's not curved. In fact a straight Japanese sword isn't even called a katana, it's called a chokuto. The aura's sword is curved, and Vergil's sword, the Yamato, is curved as well, as seen here:
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As for the rest of the Aura, look at the head. While more stylized, the horns Vergil had as Nero Angelo are there. The goatee, as you put it, is there in Nero Angelo, but more streamlined. Look at Angelo's chin, same outline on Angelo's chin as it is in this aura.

Dante's devil trigger has changed numerous times through out the years, ideally as a progression of his demonic powers(seeing as in the second game his DT wasn't reliant on a Demon infused weapon). His abilities change, and his appearances do as well. While it's like the aura has Vergil written on it's arm, the appearances are more than just similar in many respects.

If Nero being directly related to Vergil doesn't seem significant to the story then they wouldn't be adding Nero to the cast as being playable. Less time wasted programming a new character with an entirely unique gameplay style, finding a new voice actor for him, and modeling the character. The entire game's story revolves around the Order of the Sword, and Nero's the most important member to the order.

Also, the article you posted(which is from 2006 if I might add) says mentions Vergil's existence as a character. "Existence as a character" reads largely in that they're not forgetting he exists in the story, much like they don't forget Sparda is an important part of the game series. The article doesn't quite prove anything.

Vergil's probably as much in the game as Sparda is every Devil May Cry game.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:32 pm


Baulder
And no, katanas are not curved. Thats what makes them unique, they're the only japanese swords that are straight-edged. All others are curved.
Wikipedia
Katana (刀 or かたな, Katana?) is a type of nihontō, without doubt the most common sub-category.

Later used specifically for describing nihontō that are around 70~90 cm long with a curved blade and is different from Chokutō (直刀 or ちょくとう, Chokutō?) that is of a straight blade

The nihonto as we know it today with its deep, graceful curve has its origin in shinogi-zukuri (single-edged blade with ridgeline) tachi which were developed sometime around the middle of the Heian period to service the need of the growing military class. Its shape reflects the changing form of warfare in Japan. Cavalry were now the predominant fighting unit and the older straight chokutō were particularly unsuitable for fighting from horseback. The curved sword is a far more efficient weapon when wielded by a warrior on horseback where the curve of the blade adds considerably to the downward force of a cutting action.

LilaTheMoo
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Love Me Some Liz

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:38 am


Veras Gunn
Katana's are always curved, it's not a katana if it's not curved. In fact a straight Japanese sword isn't even called a katana, it's called a chokuto. The aura's sword is curved, and Vergil's sword, the Yamato, is curved as well, as seen here:
User Image

As for the rest of the Aura, look at the head. While more stylized, the horns Vergil had as Nero Angelo are there. The goatee, as you put it, is there in Nero Angelo, but more streamlined. Look at Angelo's chin, same outline on Angelo's chin as it is in this aura.

Dante's devil trigger has changed numerous times through out the years, ideally as a progression of his demonic powers(seeing as in the second game his DT wasn't reliant on a Demon infused weapon). His abilities change, and his appearances do as well. While it's like the aura has Vergil written on it's arm, the appearances are more than just similar in many respects.

If Nero being directly related to Vergil doesn't seem significant to the story then they wouldn't be adding Nero to the cast as being playable. Less time wasted programming a new character with an entirely unique gameplay style, finding a new voice actor for him, and modeling the character. The entire game's story revolves around the Order of the Sword, and Nero's the most important member to the order.

Also, the article you posted(which is from 2006 if I might add) says mentions Vergil's existence as a character. "Existence as a character" reads largely in that they're not forgetting he exists in the story, much like they don't forget Sparda is an important part of the game series. The article doesn't quite prove anything.

Vergil's probably as much in the game as Sparda is every Devil May Cry game.


Katanas have a slight curve, just like you showed in Vergil's devil trigger. But the sword in Nero's aura is more curved at the middle, and it clearly squares off at the end, where as a katana, as you conveniently posted the definition, does not square off, but curves at the end like this:
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Furthermore, somebody said that the handles were identical. The aura's handle is ovular, but a katana's handle is circular, much like it's shown here:
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Plus, I don't see Vergil's signature symbol of the yellow string tied at the handle of his yamato on the aura.

Now, about that aura's spikey demonic goatee which you say his nelo'd form has, Vergil's devil trigger and nelo angelo did not have any sort of goatee.
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Look at his chin, where is it?

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I don't see it here either. It's just a demonic outline, not a protrusion that is made obvious in the aura.

In addition, Nelo Angelo's horns were ram-like at the top and twisted/spiraled down. Actually, the aura's head looks more like a helmet. Its horns show no relation to any of Vergil's forms.

Now, I completely agree that Dante's devil trigger appeared to change through-out the series of the games because he was growing stronger. But, if you choose to declare that the aura is Vergil's new devil trigger, then you cannot associate it with his previous appearances because you can't take them into valid account. Does Dante's devil trigger in the third relate to his in the first or second? Clearely not. So it's invalid to compare the old ones if you state the aura is Vergil's new trigger.

If you look at it from a stand point, Nero's arm is just a new weapon, for all we know he could be human and the arm "brings" him a devil's power. Would it make sense that he brings Vergil's power- he's half demon. It's not a Half-Devil Bringer or a Vergil Bringer. Ok, that's being silly, I know. But you question Nero's introduction to the story as a new character, so you're stating he's related to Vergil, or he exists because of Vergil. Okay, well if that's the case, then wouldn't it make sense that he's there to bring Vergil back into the human world via his demonic arm, whether he's aware of it or not? (If the aura theory were to be true, but lets not get too hasty, we don't have concrete facts yet). He could be Vergil's son! Again, we don't know.

Sparda had a role in the story, but his role had ended since the beginning of Dante's and Vergil's story. The Force Edge had been left behind. The game even began with the story of Sparda as history; an element of the past that fueled chaos, betrayal, and revenge among his sons and their demon enemies. What they're stating is that Vergil's role won't end- meaning he is not dead. How can a dead character still have a role in the story? You may say Nero's arm, but it's just a weapon. Did Nevan have an important role in the story of DMC 3 when she turned into a guitar for Dante to use as a weapon? I hardly call that a role. Again, if you just take a step back and look at the big picture, what kind of a story would it be if one of the twins died? Many will say he blew up in the first one, but like Vergil642 said, "they left it ambigious enough however, to bring him back should they continue the series." Mundus had even said to Trish in the cut scene that Vergil had been defeated (not killed). Simply defeat.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:43 pm


Death usually makes a story better, because it riles up people's emotions, like a lot of people on this board getting upset that vergil "CAN'T BE DEAD HE HAS TO COME BACK!" I think they killed him, because they wanted to replace him with a new character, a la nero. If one of the Twins died, they can still carry on the story, the first game wasn't basing itself on the fact that Dante was a twin, it was basing itself on dante's just adventures and what not >>.

TheFallenAngel-X

Angelic Gaian


Love Me Some Liz

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:49 pm


TheFallenAngel-X
Death usually makes a story better, because it riles up people's emotions, like a lot of people on this board getting upset that vergil "CAN'T BE DEAD HE HAS TO COME BACK!" I think they killed him, because they wanted to replace him with a new character, a la nero. If one of the Twins died, they can still carry on the story, the first game wasn't basing itself on the fact that Dante was a twin, it was basing itself on dante's just adventures and what not >>.
The producers, in fact, like Vergil's character and they think he has a lot of potential- and don't forget his huge fanbase. What was the point of replacing him with another white-haired character? Nero isn't a replacement, he's just new.

If a character died, they can still carry on the story? Please explain how. neutral Sparda is dead, but he's not carrying on the story. Maybe with his sons, but that's indirect and his role is finished. And that's not the case with Vergil.
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